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	<title>Comments on: Conservative party paranoia on Poland</title>
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	<link>http://www.leftfootforward.org/2009/11/conservative-party-paranoia-on-poland/</link>
	<description>Left Foot Forward is a political blog for progressives. We provide evidence-based analysis on British politics, news and policy developments.</description>
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		<title>By: Ala</title>
		<link>http://www.leftfootforward.org/2009/11/conservative-party-paranoia-on-poland/comment-page-1/#comment-2865</link>
		<dc:creator>Ala</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 18:49:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=3260#comment-2865</guid>
		<description>WOW I just stumbled upon this site while looking for something else. I am Polish. I never voted for the Law and Justice party or any rightist parties. I don&#039;t go to church, and I don&#039;t like Rydzyk. I hope then that my opinion won&#039;t be treated as coming from an Eastern European &quot;morally ambivalent&quot; rightist here (aren&#039;t you guys a bit too full of yourselves?). 

That said, it&#039;s the first time I read about the issue, so it&#039;s rather absurd to say that &quot;The promo reel created a media frenzy in Poland&quot;. 

From the links to Polish sites provided above it seems that Aro Korol is a happener, who creates provocative videos. It seems that he sent that one to some Polish newspapers with the information that a film is being produced in which Rydzyk is portrayed as Goebbels and Poland is likened to a concentration camp. The protests from Jurek and Sobecka (I never heard of her before) were about that: a prejudiced, Polonophobic comparison, and not &quot;attempts to suppress film exposing country’s anti-Semitic issues&quot; as this blog claims.

If someone portrayed a Polish rabbi as a Nazi the reaction would be the same. There is a line between combating anti-Semitism or any other prejudices, and creating a hateful image of a nation. One of the comments in Gazeta Wyborcza said it all: &quot;Rydzyk might be the devil that he is, but so is Aro Korol&quot;. Both men use the same kind of rhetoric.

Jurek&#039;s protest was sent to Sikorski, Poland&#039;s Foreign Affairs Minister, who, I hope, cannot be accused of anti-Semitism (he&#039;s married to Anne Applebaum). He said that he looked into the issue and that it&#039;s just a silly provocation, but he assured that if a film made such a portrayal of Poland he&#039;d react. That closed the matter.

I am sorry that this blog fell a victim of the provocation as well.

However, some comments made here are far from fair:

&quot;Anti-Semitism is rife in Poland as you concede.&quot;

Anti-Semitism in Poland is nowhere as rife as it is in the UK (just check about any report on global anti-Semitism). There IS anti-Semitism in Poland, but it&#039;s not fair to create such a picture as it seems some people here feel justified to believe in.

Also, I&#039;m not a Kaminski&#039;s admirer, but this is simply not true:

&quot;his opposition to the Jewadbne apology included calls for an apology from the Jewish side&quot;

Kaminski said that the Polish nation should not bear responsibility for hateful actions of several thugs, just as the Jewish nation e.g. Israel or Jewish international institutions, should not bear responsibility for similar actions of some Jewish thugs. Perhaps it&#039;s not clear, but there were some Jews (mostly communists) who tortured and murdered civilians. Any nation should bear responsibility for what its representatives do, the democratic government for example, but if tomorrow several British neo-Nazis burn down a synagogue or attack a Polish community, chances are that you won&#039;t be able to prevent it. Kaminski clearly said that this attitude is true for both Poles and Jews, and that demanding any such apology from the Jewish side would be absurd.

It is very noble that you try to combat anti-Semitism, but please don&#039;t do it by blackening other people. I understand that Poland&#039;s history is complex, perhaps too complex for you to see it as anything else than ambiguous because it doesn&#039;t conform to the stereotypes you use. My advice would be to either self-educate or leave the issue. As it is now it just looks as if you were looking for a handy scapegoat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WOW I just stumbled upon this site while looking for something else. I am Polish. I never voted for the Law and Justice party or any rightist parties. I don&#8217;t go to church, and I don&#8217;t like Rydzyk. I hope then that my opinion won&#8217;t be treated as coming from an Eastern European &#8220;morally ambivalent&#8221; rightist here (aren&#8217;t you guys a bit too full of yourselves?). </p>
<p>That said, it&#8217;s the first time I read about the issue, so it&#8217;s rather absurd to say that &#8220;The promo reel created a media frenzy in Poland&#8221;. </p>
<p>From the links to Polish sites provided above it seems that Aro Korol is a happener, who creates provocative videos. It seems that he sent that one to some Polish newspapers with the information that a film is being produced in which Rydzyk is portrayed as Goebbels and Poland is likened to a concentration camp. The protests from Jurek and Sobecka (I never heard of her before) were about that: a prejudiced, Polonophobic comparison, and not &#8220;attempts to suppress film exposing country’s anti-Semitic issues&#8221; as this blog claims.</p>
<p>If someone portrayed a Polish rabbi as a Nazi the reaction would be the same. There is a line between combating anti-Semitism or any other prejudices, and creating a hateful image of a nation. One of the comments in Gazeta Wyborcza said it all: &#8220;Rydzyk might be the devil that he is, but so is Aro Korol&#8221;. Both men use the same kind of rhetoric.</p>
<p>Jurek&#8217;s protest was sent to Sikorski, Poland&#8217;s Foreign Affairs Minister, who, I hope, cannot be accused of anti-Semitism (he&#8217;s married to Anne Applebaum). He said that he looked into the issue and that it&#8217;s just a silly provocation, but he assured that if a film made such a portrayal of Poland he&#8217;d react. That closed the matter.</p>
<p>I am sorry that this blog fell a victim of the provocation as well.</p>
<p>However, some comments made here are far from fair:</p>
<p>&#8220;Anti-Semitism is rife in Poland as you concede.&#8221;</p>
<p>Anti-Semitism in Poland is nowhere as rife as it is in the UK (just check about any report on global anti-Semitism). There IS anti-Semitism in Poland, but it&#8217;s not fair to create such a picture as it seems some people here feel justified to believe in.</p>
<p>Also, I&#8217;m not a Kaminski&#8217;s admirer, but this is simply not true:</p>
<p>&#8220;his opposition to the Jewadbne apology included calls for an apology from the Jewish side&#8221;</p>
<p>Kaminski said that the Polish nation should not bear responsibility for hateful actions of several thugs, just as the Jewish nation e.g. Israel or Jewish international institutions, should not bear responsibility for similar actions of some Jewish thugs. Perhaps it&#8217;s not clear, but there were some Jews (mostly communists) who tortured and murdered civilians. Any nation should bear responsibility for what its representatives do, the democratic government for example, but if tomorrow several British neo-Nazis burn down a synagogue or attack a Polish community, chances are that you won&#8217;t be able to prevent it. Kaminski clearly said that this attitude is true for both Poles and Jews, and that demanding any such apology from the Jewish side would be absurd.</p>
<p>It is very noble that you try to combat anti-Semitism, but please don&#8217;t do it by blackening other people. I understand that Poland&#8217;s history is complex, perhaps too complex for you to see it as anything else than ambiguous because it doesn&#8217;t conform to the stereotypes you use. My advice would be to either self-educate or leave the issue. As it is now it just looks as if you were looking for a handy scapegoat.</p>
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		<title>By: YMT</title>
		<link>http://www.leftfootforward.org/2009/11/conservative-party-paranoia-on-poland/comment-page-1/#comment-1658</link>
		<dc:creator>YMT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 13:30:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=3260#comment-1658</guid>
		<description>IP Address - Check
Attempt at Identification and development of profile - Check

Here&#039;s the intresting part
That linking of an IP address with a name creates, you guessed it! Personal data!

Publication of said personal data - Check

Yay you&#039;ve broken the data protection act. Oh dear. Naughty naughty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IP Address &#8211; Check<br />
Attempt at Identification and development of profile &#8211; Check</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the intresting part<br />
That linking of an IP address with a name creates, you guessed it! Personal data!</p>
<p>Publication of said personal data &#8211; Check</p>
<p>Yay you&#8217;ve broken the data protection act. Oh dear. Naughty naughty.</p>
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		<title>By: willstraw</title>
		<link>http://www.leftfootforward.org/2009/11/conservative-party-paranoia-on-poland/comment-page-1/#comment-1650</link>
		<dc:creator>willstraw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 10:54:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=3260#comment-1650</guid>
		<description>Gordon&#039;s Dad - before you start making assumptions about the purpose of this blog, perhaps worth reading the About section which explains our values. Anti-semitism (in Poland or elsewhere) clearly falls under our &#039;racism and extremism&#039; category.

And for those still following this chain, there is further evidence this morning of Tory astroturfing from the same IP address over on Liberal Conspiracy: http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2009/11/13/revealed-how-tory-staffers-are-astro-turfing-leftwing-blogs/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gordon&#8217;s Dad &#8211; before you start making assumptions about the purpose of this blog, perhaps worth reading the About section which explains our values. Anti-semitism (in Poland or elsewhere) clearly falls under our &#8216;racism and extremism&#8217; category.</p>
<p>And for those still following this chain, there is further evidence this morning of Tory astroturfing from the same IP address over on Liberal Conspiracy: <a href="http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2009/11/13/revealed-how-tory-staffers-are-astro-turfing-leftwing-blogs/" rel="nofollow">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2009/11/13/revealed-how-tory-staffers-are-astro-turfing-leftwing-blogs/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Liberal Conspiracy &#187; Revealed: How Tory staffers are astro-turfing leftwing blogs</title>
		<link>http://www.leftfootforward.org/2009/11/conservative-party-paranoia-on-poland/comment-page-1/#comment-1647</link>
		<dc:creator>Liberal Conspiracy &#187; Revealed: How Tory staffers are astro-turfing leftwing blogs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 10:01:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=3260#comment-1647</guid>
		<description>[...] astro-turfing leftwing blogs by Sunny H &#160; &#160;  November 13, 2009 at 10:00 am Will Straw at Left Foot Forward published an astonishing story the other day. He said: An employee of the Conservative party has [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] astro-turfing leftwing blogs by Sunny H &nbsp; &nbsp;  November 13, 2009 at 10:00 am Will Straw at Left Foot Forward published an astonishing story the other day. He said: An employee of the Conservative party has [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Gordon's dad</title>
		<link>http://www.leftfootforward.org/2009/11/conservative-party-paranoia-on-poland/comment-page-1/#comment-1627</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon's dad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:51:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=3260#comment-1627</guid>
		<description>I think we also need to be clear about the original point made by my son, Gordon.  This blog was not set up to collate and report examples of Polish anti-semitism, horrible though such incidents undoubtedly are. Left Foot Forward exists to attack David Cameron and the Conservatives.  It was the tenuous connection to the Law and Justice party that led Will Straw to deem the story worthy of inclusion on his blog.

When you try to make simplistic propaganda out of the complex and morally ambivalent world of Eastern European politics, you risk looking foolish (and cheap).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we also need to be clear about the original point made by my son, Gordon.  This blog was not set up to collate and report examples of Polish anti-semitism, horrible though such incidents undoubtedly are. Left Foot Forward exists to attack David Cameron and the Conservatives.  It was the tenuous connection to the Law and Justice party that led Will Straw to deem the story worthy of inclusion on his blog.</p>
<p>When you try to make simplistic propaganda out of the complex and morally ambivalent world of Eastern European politics, you risk looking foolish (and cheap).</p>
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		<title>By: FYI</title>
		<link>http://www.leftfootforward.org/2009/11/conservative-party-paranoia-on-poland/comment-page-1/#comment-1552</link>
		<dc:creator>FYI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 12:25:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=3260#comment-1552</guid>
		<description>Indeed I am obsessive about accurate journalism.

I&#039;m incredulous that you would offer Aro Korol the choice of who is going to write about Aro Korol&#039;s film, and allow that person to pose as an independent guest columnist on your &quot;evidence based&quot; web site. Worse, you tool Korol&#039;s friend&#039;s information at face value and seemingly without much healthy scepticism.

Sorry, but this case makes you look both gullible and hypocritical. I don&#039;t doubt your good intentions and I hope you will learn from this mistake. You will restore public trust if you don&#039;t let it happen again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed I am obsessive about accurate journalism.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m incredulous that you would offer Aro Korol the choice of who is going to write about Aro Korol&#8217;s film, and allow that person to pose as an independent guest columnist on your &#8220;evidence based&#8221; web site. Worse, you tool Korol&#8217;s friend&#8217;s information at face value and seemingly without much healthy scepticism.</p>
<p>Sorry, but this case makes you look both gullible and hypocritical. I don&#8217;t doubt your good intentions and I hope you will learn from this mistake. You will restore public trust if you don&#8217;t let it happen again.</p>
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		<title>By: willstraw</title>
		<link>http://www.leftfootforward.org/2009/11/conservative-party-paranoia-on-poland/comment-page-1/#comment-1549</link>
		<dc:creator>willstraw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 11:18:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=3260#comment-1549</guid>
		<description>FYI - I have no idea why you are so incredulous about this. The only &quot;howling mistake&quot; was describing Jurek as a politican rather than an MP. We get press releases all the time and have to decide whether they are accurate or not. I read through the links and decided that it was a story that deserved a wider audience (as did a number of other publications which I have listed above).

You&#039;ve also obviously not read the link I posted of the letter from Jurek, which makes no mention of journalistic standards and every mention of the film being &quot;anti-Polish&quot; and &quot;legal steps, to prevent unpunished insults&quot;. I happen to think that this is outrageous and you disagree. If you have other substantive points to make about the content of the original article then I&#039;d love to hear them. But at the moment I think you&#039;re being a little obsessive about this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FYI &#8211; I have no idea why you are so incredulous about this. The only &#8220;howling mistake&#8221; was describing Jurek as a politican rather than an MP. We get press releases all the time and have to decide whether they are accurate or not. I read through the links and decided that it was a story that deserved a wider audience (as did a number of other publications which I have listed above).</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve also obviously not read the link I posted of the letter from Jurek, which makes no mention of journalistic standards and every mention of the film being &#8220;anti-Polish&#8221; and &#8220;legal steps, to prevent unpunished insults&#8221;. I happen to think that this is outrageous and you disagree. If you have other substantive points to make about the content of the original article then I&#8217;d love to hear them. But at the moment I think you&#8217;re being a little obsessive about this.</p>
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		<title>By: FYI</title>
		<link>http://www.leftfootforward.org/2009/11/conservative-party-paranoia-on-poland/comment-page-1/#comment-1548</link>
		<dc:creator>FYI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 11:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=3260#comment-1548</guid>
		<description>So Aro Korol contacted you to place his commercial interest on your web site, and also chose the author who wrote about his commercial interest on your web site? The author filed you copy with howling mistakes, and sensationalist claims that a man who opposes the film&#039;s journalistic standards is in fact trying to suppress an expose of anti-Semitism?

This is an unforgivable breach of professional ethics and I now have zero confidence in your web site. How much more PR, product placement and advertorial dressed up as evidence-based journalism is there on your site? Moreover, Aro Korol has also lost credibility in this incident, particularly as he is seeking funding and has an interest in causing a stir about his film. 

It is nice of you to be so honest now after questioning, but this seems rather late, particularly as you were so quick to accuse others of subterfuge. I have nothing to do with Jurek and its not my place to track him down and offer him the right to reply to your allegations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So Aro Korol contacted you to place his commercial interest on your web site, and also chose the author who wrote about his commercial interest on your web site? The author filed you copy with howling mistakes, and sensationalist claims that a man who opposes the film&#8217;s journalistic standards is in fact trying to suppress an expose of anti-Semitism?</p>
<p>This is an unforgivable breach of professional ethics and I now have zero confidence in your web site. How much more PR, product placement and advertorial dressed up as evidence-based journalism is there on your site? Moreover, Aro Korol has also lost credibility in this incident, particularly as he is seeking funding and has an interest in causing a stir about his film. </p>
<p>It is nice of you to be so honest now after questioning, but this seems rather late, particularly as you were so quick to accuse others of subterfuge. I have nothing to do with Jurek and its not my place to track him down and offer him the right to reply to your allegations.</p>
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		<title>By: willstraw</title>
		<link>http://www.leftfootforward.org/2009/11/conservative-party-paranoia-on-poland/comment-page-1/#comment-1543</link>
		<dc:creator>willstraw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 10:00:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=3260#comment-1543</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Billy - it&#039;s a good idea and not hard to do using wordpress so I&#039;ll get onto it. But I also want to rule out commenters insulting others without swearing so some discretion will be necessary. Ultimately if people remain polite while making the points, there&#039;ll be no need for any censorship at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Billy &#8211; it&#8217;s a good idea and not hard to do using wordpress so I&#8217;ll get onto it. But I also want to rule out commenters insulting others without swearing so some discretion will be necessary. Ultimately if people remain polite while making the points, there&#8217;ll be no need for any censorship at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Billy the Kid</title>
		<link>http://www.leftfootforward.org/2009/11/conservative-party-paranoia-on-poland/comment-page-1/#comment-1542</link>
		<dc:creator>Billy the Kid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 09:52:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=3260#comment-1542</guid>
		<description>Will can&#039;t you set up a filter on certain words. 

If a commentator was to say &quot;Gordon Brown is a C*%T&quot; - which would of course be popular with the majority of people in this country and fully understandable - why can&#039;t you set up a filter on the word C*%T and not allow the message to be sent?

Instead of the offending word C*%T being used other words would then be necessary, for example &quot;Gordon Brown is a useless, dishonest, thieving, lying delusional, dithering, unelected prat&quot; which would keep the whole tenure of the blog just more civilised.

Just a thought Will and then you won&#039;t be accused of being a suck up New Labour censoring control freak - it&#039;s about politeness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will can&#8217;t you set up a filter on certain words. </p>
<p>If a commentator was to say &#8220;Gordon Brown is a C*%T&#8221; &#8211; which would of course be popular with the majority of people in this country and fully understandable &#8211; why can&#8217;t you set up a filter on the word C*%T and not allow the message to be sent?</p>
<p>Instead of the offending word C*%T being used other words would then be necessary, for example &#8220;Gordon Brown is a useless, dishonest, thieving, lying delusional, dithering, unelected prat&#8221; which would keep the whole tenure of the blog just more civilised.</p>
<p>Just a thought Will and then you won&#8217;t be accused of being a suck up New Labour censoring control freak &#8211; it&#8217;s about politeness.</p>
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