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	<title>Comments on: Hereditary peers tip balance on &#8220;gay hate&#8221; law</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.leftfootforward.org/2009/11/hereditary-peers-tip-balance-on-gay-hate-law/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.leftfootforward.org/2009/11/hereditary-peers-tip-balance-on-gay-hate-law/</link>
	<description>Left Foot Forward is a political blog for progressives. We provide evidence-based analysis on British politics, news and policy developments.</description>
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		<title>By: willstraw</title>
		<link>http://www.leftfootforward.org/2009/11/hereditary-peers-tip-balance-on-gay-hate-law/comment-page-1/#comment-1648</link>
		<dc:creator>willstraw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 10:18:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=3743#comment-1648</guid>
		<description>Simon - Labour&#039;s main failure here is to get rid of the hereditary peers - we have an absolutely archaic form of democracy in the 2nd chamber. Fair points on the lack of a strong case and whipping. But, no, I&#039;m not upset that my father was defeated; I&#039;m upset that gays and lesbians don&#039;t have an important protection which is afforded to other minority groups.

Gordon&#039;s dad - I care about liberty and derive my views from Mill&#039;s harm principle (&quot;That the only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others&quot;). Individuals, in my view, should not have the right to incite violence against others. In this instance, Isaiah Berlin&#039;s principle of negative liberty (Freedom of speech) comes up against positive liberty (freedom from harm) and I happen to fall in favour of the latter. 

JPFX - There were three. We&#039;re putting up the roll call as a googledoc in the next few mins.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Simon &#8211; Labour&#8217;s main failure here is to get rid of the hereditary peers &#8211; we have an absolutely archaic form of democracy in the 2nd chamber. Fair points on the lack of a strong case and whipping. But, no, I&#8217;m not upset that my father was defeated; I&#8217;m upset that gays and lesbians don&#8217;t have an important protection which is afforded to other minority groups.</p>
<p>Gordon&#8217;s dad &#8211; I care about liberty and derive my views from Mill&#8217;s harm principle (&#8220;That the only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others&#8221;). Individuals, in my view, should not have the right to incite violence against others. In this instance, Isaiah Berlin&#8217;s principle of negative liberty (Freedom of speech) comes up against positive liberty (freedom from harm) and I happen to fall in favour of the latter. </p>
<p>JPFX &#8211; There were three. We&#8217;re putting up the roll call as a googledoc in the next few mins.</p>
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		<title>By: JPFX</title>
		<link>http://www.leftfootforward.org/2009/11/hereditary-peers-tip-balance-on-gay-hate-law/comment-page-1/#comment-1646</link>
		<dc:creator>JPFX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 09:55:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=3743#comment-1646</guid>
		<description>And how many Bishops voted to retain this “free speech” amendment?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And how many Bishops voted to retain this “free speech” amendment?</p>
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		<title>By: Tobin Webb</title>
		<link>http://www.leftfootforward.org/2009/11/hereditary-peers-tip-balance-on-gay-hate-law/comment-page-1/#comment-8923</link>
		<dc:creator>Tobin Webb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 23:22:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=3743#comment-8923</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;RT @leftfootfwd 44 hereditary peers voted to water down the gay hate law last night - enough to tip the balance http://bit.ly/FMi1Q&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">RT @leftfootfwd 44 hereditary peers voted to water down the gay hate law last night &#8211; enough to tip the balance <a href="http://bit.ly/FMi1Q" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/FMi1Q</a></span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Gordon's dad</title>
		<link>http://www.leftfootforward.org/2009/11/hereditary-peers-tip-balance-on-gay-hate-law/comment-page-1/#comment-1624</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon's dad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:17:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=3743#comment-1624</guid>
		<description>You just don&#039;t care about free speech, do you?  This proposed law is the intellectual equivalent of excessive health and safety regulation: the application of the precautionary principle to the exchange of ideas.

The Labour Party no longer seems to have a liberal bone in its body.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You just don&#8217;t care about free speech, do you?  This proposed law is the intellectual equivalent of excessive health and safety regulation: the application of the precautionary principle to the exchange of ideas.</p>
<p>The Labour Party no longer seems to have a liberal bone in its body.</p>
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		<title>By: Emma Burnell</title>
		<link>http://www.leftfootforward.org/2009/11/hereditary-peers-tip-balance-on-gay-hate-law/comment-page-1/#comment-8924</link>
		<dc:creator>Emma Burnell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 18:05:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=3743#comment-8924</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;RT @leftfootfwd 44 hereditary peers voted to water down the gay hate law last night - enough to tip the balance http://bit.ly/FMi1Q&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">RT @leftfootfwd 44 hereditary peers voted to water down the gay hate law last night &#8211; enough to tip the balance <a href="http://bit.ly/FMi1Q" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/FMi1Q</a></span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: David Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.leftfootforward.org/2009/11/hereditary-peers-tip-balance-on-gay-hate-law/comment-page-1/#comment-8925</link>
		<dc:creator>David Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 18:05:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=3743#comment-8925</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;RT @leftfootfwd 44 hereditary peers voted to water down the gay hate law last night - enough to tip the balance http://bit.ly/FMi1Q&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">RT @leftfootfwd 44 hereditary peers voted to water down the gay hate law last night &#8211; enough to tip the balance <a href="http://bit.ly/FMi1Q" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/FMi1Q</a></span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Simon</title>
		<link>http://www.leftfootforward.org/2009/11/hereditary-peers-tip-balance-on-gay-hate-law/comment-page-1/#comment-1611</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 17:57:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=3743#comment-1611</guid>
		<description>Hang on a minute.  You cannot simply add up those who voted for the protection and who are in the HoL as hereditary members and &#039;pin the blame&#039; on them.  That is not how democracy works - as you well know.

The Government failed to make a sufficiently strong case as to why the original version of the provision should be passed by the HoL.

So blame the Government for not drafting it properly, blame the HoL whips for not drilling enough Labour peers (of which there are more than enough to have carried the day

This was a badly drafted clause that would have made the law unworkable and not offered the protection that the Justice Department wanted.

Are you upset that your father has been defeated Mr Straw?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hang on a minute.  You cannot simply add up those who voted for the protection and who are in the HoL as hereditary members and &#8216;pin the blame&#8217; on them.  That is not how democracy works &#8211; as you well know.</p>
<p>The Government failed to make a sufficiently strong case as to why the original version of the provision should be passed by the HoL.</p>
<p>So blame the Government for not drafting it properly, blame the HoL whips for not drilling enough Labour peers (of which there are more than enough to have carried the day</p>
<p>This was a badly drafted clause that would have made the law unworkable and not offered the protection that the Justice Department wanted.</p>
<p>Are you upset that your father has been defeated Mr Straw?</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.leftfootforward.org/2009/11/hereditary-peers-tip-balance-on-gay-hate-law/comment-page-1/#comment-8926</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 17:53:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=3743#comment-8926</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;RT @wesstreeting RT @leftfootfwd 44 hered peers voted to water down gay hate law last night - enough to tip balance http://bit.ly/FMi1Q&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">RT @wesstreeting RT @leftfootfwd 44 hered peers voted to water down gay hate law last night &#8211; enough to tip balance <a href="http://bit.ly/FMi1Q" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/FMi1Q</a></span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: LGBT Labour</title>
		<link>http://www.leftfootforward.org/2009/11/hereditary-peers-tip-balance-on-gay-hate-law/comment-page-1/#comment-8927</link>
		<dc:creator>LGBT Labour</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 17:49:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=3743#comment-8927</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;RT @leftfootfwd 44 hereditary peers voted to water down the gay hate law last night - enough to tip the balance http://bit.ly/FMi1Q&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">RT @leftfootfwd 44 hereditary peers voted to water down the gay hate law last night &#8211; enough to tip the balance <a href="http://bit.ly/FMi1Q" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/FMi1Q</a></span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: James Asser</title>
		<link>http://www.leftfootforward.org/2009/11/hereditary-peers-tip-balance-on-gay-hate-law/comment-page-1/#comment-8928</link>
		<dc:creator>James Asser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 17:47:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=3743#comment-8928</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;RT @leftfootfwd 44 hereditary peers voted to water down the gay hate law last night - enough to tip the balance http://bit.ly/FMi1Q&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">RT @leftfootfwd 44 hereditary peers voted to water down the gay hate law last night &#8211; enough to tip the balance <a href="http://bit.ly/FMi1Q" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/FMi1Q</a></span></span></span></p>
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