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	<title>Comments on: Johnson defies Cameron on 50p tax</title>
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	<link>http://www.leftfootforward.org/2009/11/johnson-defies-cameron-on-50p-tax/</link>
	<description>Left Foot Forward is a political blog for progressives. We provide evidence-based analysis on British politics, news and policy developments.</description>
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		<title>By: BoJo out on a limb over bankers' bonus &#124; Left Foot Forward</title>
		<link>http://www.leftfootforward.org/2009/11/johnson-defies-cameron-on-50p-tax/comment-page-1/#comment-4033</link>
		<dc:creator>BoJo out on a limb over bankers' bonus &#124; Left Foot Forward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 15:02:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=3848#comment-4033</guid>
		<description>[...] Johnson has previously defied David Cameron on 50p tax.    Share  &#124; Permalink  &#124; Leave a comment                   Click here to cancel [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Johnson has previously defied David Cameron on 50p tax.    Share  | Permalink  | Leave a comment                   Click here to cancel [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Blogger</title>
		<link>http://www.leftfootforward.org/2009/11/johnson-defies-cameron-on-50p-tax/comment-page-1/#comment-1834</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Blogger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:04:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=3848#comment-1834</guid>
		<description>Anon E Mouse:

&lt;i&gt;My problem is they tax you your whole life when you’re alive and then when you’re dead?&lt;/i&gt;

No they don&#039;t. They tax the estate. You are dead, it is irrelevant to you. As Bill says, the people who inherit the estate have not earned it.

&lt;i&gt;Why not start by getting rid of 100 MP’s?&lt;/i&gt;

You want less representation? That&#039;s odd. I actually want more, and more accountable representatives.

What will cutting 100 MPs achieve?

1) @£65k each that will be £6.5m per year. Not much really. (OK, so pension benefits will boost that amount, but we are still not talking much when compared to the £200bn debt).
2) It will mean that boundaries will have to be redrawn. This is not a trivial task. There is a lot of consultation involved when there are boundary changes and cutting 100 MPs will mean that boundaries of *all* constituencies will have to be redrawn to even out the effect. My guess is that it could not be done within one parliament. I would also be interested in estimates of the cost of this. I bet it would eat up all the &quot;savings&quot; from #1.
3) It will make MPs more aloof and disconnected from their constituency (cf MEPs for an example of what I mean). The expenses scandal has shown that the public want their MPs to be more accountable to the public. Making them more aloof is going in the wrong direction.
4) It is blatant gerrymandering from Cameron. &#039;Nuff said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anon E Mouse:</p>
<p><i>My problem is they tax you your whole life when you’re alive and then when you’re dead?</i></p>
<p>No they don&#8217;t. They tax the estate. You are dead, it is irrelevant to you. As Bill says, the people who inherit the estate have not earned it.</p>
<p><i>Why not start by getting rid of 100 MP’s?</i></p>
<p>You want less representation? That&#8217;s odd. I actually want more, and more accountable representatives.</p>
<p>What will cutting 100 MPs achieve?</p>
<p>1) @£65k each that will be £6.5m per year. Not much really. (OK, so pension benefits will boost that amount, but we are still not talking much when compared to the £200bn debt).<br />
2) It will mean that boundaries will have to be redrawn. This is not a trivial task. There is a lot of consultation involved when there are boundary changes and cutting 100 MPs will mean that boundaries of *all* constituencies will have to be redrawn to even out the effect. My guess is that it could not be done within one parliament. I would also be interested in estimates of the cost of this. I bet it would eat up all the &#8220;savings&#8221; from #1.<br />
3) It will make MPs more aloof and disconnected from their constituency (cf MEPs for an example of what I mean). The expenses scandal has shown that the public want their MPs to be more accountable to the public. Making them more aloof is going in the wrong direction.<br />
4) It is blatant gerrymandering from Cameron. &#8216;Nuff said.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Todd</title>
		<link>http://www.leftfootforward.org/2009/11/johnson-defies-cameron-on-50p-tax/comment-page-1/#comment-1770</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Todd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:08:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=3848#comment-1770</guid>
		<description>The Johnson/Cameron battles now seem a key dynamic within the Tory Party. More thoughts:

http://jonathantodd.wordpress.com/2009/11/17/cracks-in-tory-discipline/

And:

http://jonathantodd.wordpress.com/2009/11/15/dave-v-boris/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Johnson/Cameron battles now seem a key dynamic within the Tory Party. More thoughts:</p>
<p><a href="http://jonathantodd.wordpress.com/2009/11/17/cracks-in-tory-discipline/" rel="nofollow">http://jonathantodd.wordpress.com/2009/11/17/cracks-in-tory-discipline/</a></p>
<p>And:</p>
<p><a href="http://jonathantodd.wordpress.com/2009/11/15/dave-v-boris/" rel="nofollow">http://jonathantodd.wordpress.com/2009/11/15/dave-v-boris/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Cracks in Tory discipline &#171; The Home of Toddism</title>
		<link>http://www.leftfootforward.org/2009/11/johnson-defies-cameron-on-50p-tax/comment-page-1/#comment-1769</link>
		<dc:creator>Cracks in Tory discipline &#171; The Home of Toddism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:44:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=3848#comment-1769</guid>
		<description>[...] The Spectator &#8212; jonathantodd @ 2:43 pm   As I was writing my last blog, Boris Johnson was writing his latest act of defiance to David Cameron. With commentary like this from the Spectator&#8217;s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Spectator &#8212; jonathantodd @ 2:43 pm   As I was writing my last blog, Boris Johnson was writing his latest act of defiance to David Cameron. With commentary like this from the Spectator&#8217;s [...]</p>
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		<title>By: willstraw</title>
		<link>http://www.leftfootforward.org/2009/11/johnson-defies-cameron-on-50p-tax/comment-page-1/#comment-1754</link>
		<dc:creator>willstraw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 10:40:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=3848#comment-1754</guid>
		<description>Arthur,

The dynamic effect of taxation and its chief proponent Arthur Laffer are both discredited because they have never been proved empirically.

Johann Hari did an excellent explanation a couple of years ago: http://www.newstatesman.com/books/2007/11/supply-side-economic-tax-rich

And even theoretically, you never know whether you are on the up or down side of the Laffer curve (ie the margin at which higher taxes start resulting in lower revenues could be 70%).

Will</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arthur,</p>
<p>The dynamic effect of taxation and its chief proponent Arthur Laffer are both discredited because they have never been proved empirically.</p>
<p>Johann Hari did an excellent explanation a couple of years ago: <a href="http://www.newstatesman.com/books/2007/11/supply-side-economic-tax-rich" rel="nofollow">http://www.newstatesman.com/books/2007/11/supply-side-economic-tax-rich</a></p>
<p>And even theoretically, you never know whether you are on the up or down side of the Laffer curve (ie the margin at which higher taxes start resulting in lower revenues could be 70%).</p>
<p>Will</p>
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		<title>By: Arthur</title>
		<link>http://www.leftfootforward.org/2009/11/johnson-defies-cameron-on-50p-tax/comment-page-1/#comment-1753</link>
		<dc:creator>Arthur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 10:32:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=3848#comment-1753</guid>
		<description>&quot;make up the lost revenue&#039;?

That is the whole point.  The higher tax rate will, in the end, lose more revenue than it raises.  This is called the dynamic effect of taxation.  Low rates are an incentive, high rates are a penalty.

The introduction of the 50p rate is nothing more than a Labour trick set to trap the Tories.  Gordon Brown is not stupid, he knows that the higher rate will raise precious little in revenue, but he does not care.  That is not his purpose.  If he can lay a trap for the conservatives, then he is like pig in muck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;make up the lost revenue&#8217;?</p>
<p>That is the whole point.  The higher tax rate will, in the end, lose more revenue than it raises.  This is called the dynamic effect of taxation.  Low rates are an incentive, high rates are a penalty.</p>
<p>The introduction of the 50p rate is nothing more than a Labour trick set to trap the Tories.  Gordon Brown is not stupid, he knows that the higher rate will raise precious little in revenue, but he does not care.  That is not his purpose.  If he can lay a trap for the conservatives, then he is like pig in muck.</p>
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		<title>By: Anon E Mouse</title>
		<link>http://www.leftfootforward.org/2009/11/johnson-defies-cameron-on-50p-tax/comment-page-1/#comment-1732</link>
		<dc:creator>Anon E Mouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 14:21:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=3848#comment-1732</guid>
		<description>Will - there is already a huge gap, one that won&#039;t be filled with either scrapping IHT or any other silly crowd pleasing sound-bite. My problem is they tax you your whole life when you&#039;re alive and then when you&#039;re dead?

It&#039;s immoral and when Alistar Darling doubled the threshold for it last year  to let more people keep more of their loved one&#039;s money, I for one supported him.

Look at America with Reaganomics - as bad as the finances are, we are where we are and if this government can resist overtaxing us we&#039;ll just grow our way out of the problem.

Couple that with Labour cuts of 9.3% or the Tory cuts of 10% - either way, assuming the Lib Dems don&#039;t get in we will be OK.

I&#039;m no economist but I wish people would just calm down.  Why not start by getting rid of 100 MP&#039;s?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will &#8211; there is already a huge gap, one that won&#8217;t be filled with either scrapping IHT or any other silly crowd pleasing sound-bite. My problem is they tax you your whole life when you&#8217;re alive and then when you&#8217;re dead?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s immoral and when Alistar Darling doubled the threshold for it last year  to let more people keep more of their loved one&#8217;s money, I for one supported him.</p>
<p>Look at America with Reaganomics &#8211; as bad as the finances are, we are where we are and if this government can resist overtaxing us we&#8217;ll just grow our way out of the problem.</p>
<p>Couple that with Labour cuts of 9.3% or the Tory cuts of 10% &#8211; either way, assuming the Lib Dems don&#8217;t get in we will be OK.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m no economist but I wish people would just calm down.  Why not start by getting rid of 100 MP&#8217;s?</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Kristol-Balls</title>
		<link>http://www.leftfootforward.org/2009/11/johnson-defies-cameron-on-50p-tax/comment-page-1/#comment-1726</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Kristol-Balls</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 11:31:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=3848#comment-1726</guid>
		<description>That really does depend on whether or not the projected tax take from the 50p rate actually comes in.

My preference is for St. Vince&#039;s &#039;mansion tax&#039;. Very hard to avoid, very popular with the masses (despite the kicking given to it by the well propertied newspaper editors and commentators) and targets unearned wealth rather than income from work.

Labour should swallow their pride and work with the Lib Dems on a joint manifesto commitment to it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That really does depend on whether or not the projected tax take from the 50p rate actually comes in.</p>
<p>My preference is for St. Vince&#8217;s &#8216;mansion tax&#8217;. Very hard to avoid, very popular with the masses (despite the kicking given to it by the well propertied newspaper editors and commentators) and targets unearned wealth rather than income from work.</p>
<p>Labour should swallow their pride and work with the Lib Dems on a joint manifesto commitment to it.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Todd</title>
		<link>http://www.leftfootforward.org/2009/11/johnson-defies-cameron-on-50p-tax/comment-page-1/#comment-8231</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Todd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 11:16:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=3848#comment-8231</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;RT @wdjstraw Johnson defies Cameron on 50p tax http://bit.ly/1HXzL4 &lt; Johnson does keep pushing the envelope http://tinyurl.com/yjper8e&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">RT @wdjstraw Johnson defies Cameron on 50p tax <a href="http://bit.ly/1HXzL4" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/1HXzL4</a> &lt; Johnson does keep pushing the envelope <a href="http://tinyurl.com/yjper8e" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/yjper8e</a></span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Shamik Das</title>
		<link>http://www.leftfootforward.org/2009/11/johnson-defies-cameron-on-50p-tax/comment-page-1/#comment-8232</link>
		<dc:creator>Shamik Das</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 11:15:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=3848#comment-8232</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;RT @wdjstraw @leftfootfwd: Johnson defies Cameron on 50p tax http://bit.ly/1HXzL4 &lt;--- Bullingdon boys at war! Fight, fight, fight!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">RT @wdjstraw @leftfootfwd: Johnson defies Cameron on 50p tax <a href="http://bit.ly/1HXzL4" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/1HXzL4</a> &lt;&#8212; Bullingdon boys at war! Fight, fight, fight!</span></span></span></p>
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