Dr. Samuels is wrong in his assumption that most collectors have anything like these views. The vast majority of collectors are genuinely insterested in the history and preservation of historical items – there chosen field of specialisation is neither here nor there. Others collect Japanese or Communist items, yet we do not row over politics. The latter two regimes were of course just as bad (if not worse) than the Third Reich. Yet in none of these areas have I met anyone(in my 19 years of collecting) who hold any extremist or radical views in either direction.

Also the writier is wrong with regard tthat the trade is illegal in Germany, etc – this is not the case, but there are legal restrictions (sometimes which seem a little over the top) to ensure that these items and symbols are not used to glorify Nazism. Some of the most respected dealers in the trade are based in Germany, and they follow the law to the letter, and do not hold any views supporting Nazism.

Whilst it’s clear that the media wish to incite some degree of ‘horror’ in people that these items are sold, I’m sorry but in a free society we should not forget the horros of history – to do so is dangerous and opens the door for future trouble.

To fellow collectors and amateur historians I’ll say this: we know it’s impossible to get away from the fact that a small minority among us hold extremist views. This is life unfortunately, and we know this is a very small minority and banning things simply drives this underground (would people rather have the BNP where we can see them or underground where it is impossible to police their activities?) These people are for the most part shunned by the rest of us – indeed I have never met any, and I’m well aware that even amongst collectors of Third Reich antiques, the collecting of Holocaust items is viewed in pretty much the same way as the rest of the population.

Finally I feel I should (well… you really have to these days else you are branded with some type of undeserved name) justify why we collect.

The Third Reich, whether we like the fact or not HAPPENED. It was, again however unoppular this may be, a very interesting, disturbing and amazing time. How this came about is still wrapped in enigma by many historians – the events which happen oftn defy belief (and this is not a good thing).

Only by remembering, conserving and discovering history can we ensure that this sort of thing never happens again. To ban or hide history is the first step towards allowing it to happen again – and indeed for those who do hold beliefs which are misguided, this simply creates a ‘martyr philosophy’. Neo-Nazis already believe in spiritual connections to the symbols and mysticism of Hitler, and Lord knows what else (let’s face it – they’re not exact the brains of Britain). Their paranoia is also high as it is, without governments putting too much importance on a minority view, and thereby pandering to their disturbed views.

Not being one of these people, I attach no importance to the symbols in the ways they do – I do not see how seeing a symbol, especially if you choose to ignore learning the history, can somehow magically make someone into an anti-semite (as the ‘logic’ of banning seems to indicate).

I’d also add the beauty of the items themselves is a factor. Sorry if that’s not ‘PC’ enough, but these things were not designed with military effectiveness in mind – they were designed by artists and architects specifically to look good – allied leaders who visited Germany are known to say how wonderful things looked. Indeed allied soldiers, the people who fought this regime, would collect items not only as a trophy, but because they looked simply beautiful.

I’m sure if some of you would attend some of the military or collectors fairs, and meet some of the people involved you would not be so quick as to judge as all as some kind of sinister fetish group.

After all, I myself am part Ashkanazi (my ancestors are from Holland), part indian, a pro-Israeli and one of my uncles was present at the liberation and occupation by allied troops at Belsen. I would be the first person to spot the nutters!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/dec/23/poland-catholicism-nazis-difficult-past

Are you suggesting they should be? We can’t make legal judgements about the nature of people buying things, and we certainly shouldn’t ban their sale. It plays into the persecution complex of the far right, as well as being a gross violation of civil liberties.

When I look at “Nazi Memorabilia” in the Imperial War Museum – is that glorifying Hitler?

No! . . . it’s reminding me that such madmen can easily come to power and that we should never deny that fact or try to “hide history” just because it’s a bit unpleasant . . or it let’s future generations forget what can happen when evil men seize power.

I actually possess a WW2 German helmet and a WW2 RAF flying helmet and goggles – why should one be less relevant as an historical artefact than the other? Neither make me a Nazi sympathiser.

I think you are however, correct that David Irving selling Nazi Memorabilia from his own site probably does have a lot to do with glorifying the Nazis . . . but that’s because of who he is . . . the point I am making is that simply owning a historic artefact does not necessarily mean that you support the people who made it any more than owning an axe, makes you a “axe wielding murderer”.

I think you will find, (& Liz too- forgive me for ever even thinking you could be related to the appalling Dennis) that we probably agree on the fundamental idea that the Nazis were / are evil but I just wish that the criticism was a bit more focussed to avoid the more manic, broad brush, tabloid style approach to any subject.

Hoping you both have a good Christmas and a Happy and peaceful New Year.

All the jolly. ) from Silent Hunter.

As the director of the Simon Wiesenthal Centre, Dr Shimon Samuels, said:

“This Naz-eBay is extremely distasteful to the point of sick. There’s a market out there for Nazi memorabilia. If this is done to glorify Hitler, as I imagine it is, then it is unacceptable.”

I think what Gordon Brown said re British jobs etc was stupid and crass and something that he probably regrets.

Re denis – no relation he’s a Mac ( normally a Scottish derivation) whereas Mc is normally Irish . You learn something new every day!

In particular the “British jobs for British workers” statement by a Labour PM being “sickening”.

Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to make the same mistakes.

The Swastika should be a warning to us all as to how easy it is for “fundamentalists” of any persuasion to hijack people with weak intellects and persuade them that a minority group are the cause of ALL the problems they face.

The phrase “British jobs for British workers” springs readily to mind.

Now THAT, was sickening!