Comments on: Memo to the mainstream: where’s the vision, where’s the courage? http://www.leftfootforward.org/2010/01/memo-to-the-mainstream-wheres-the-vision-wheres-the-courage/ Left Foot Forward is a political blog for progressives. We provide evidence-based analysis on British politics, news and policy developments. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 03:48:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Bill Kerry http://www.leftfootforward.org/2010/01/memo-to-the-mainstream-wheres-the-vision-wheres-the-courage/comment-page-1/#comment-4736 Bill Kerry Mon, 25 Jan 2010 19:04:56 +0000 http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=6652#comment-4736 Thanks for the comments above. I would direct people to the FAQ section on our website www.equalitytrust.org.uk for most of the points raised. Suicide rates are slightly higher in more equal countries - this is why the strapline of "The Spirit Level" said more equal societies "almost" always do better. Maybe the violence is turned inwards in more equal, more stable, societies? There's probably a PhD thesis in there somewhere... I don't think you can force a society to become more equal (and we wouldn't want to) but the cases of Japan and Sweden are interesting in that there was a conscious political decision taken to make the countries more equal. In Sweden I believe it was framed by the Social Democrats as being about building "the People's Home" (they had some really nasty labour diputes in the pre-war period and society was far from harmonious) and in Japan it was a reaction to the humiliation of WW2 and a desire to get away from all their hierarchical/imperialist past. The Equality Trust is largely about providing information so that people can make their minds up about what sort of society they want - and thereby generate the necessary social and political will to make the correct choices. I would say that countries generally have the levels of inequality and poverty they choose to accept. Thanks for the comments above. I would direct people to the FAQ section on our website http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk for most of the points raised. Suicide rates are slightly higher in more equal countries – this is why the strapline of “The Spirit Level” said more equal societies “almost” always do better. Maybe the violence is turned inwards in more equal, more stable, societies? There’s probably a PhD thesis in there somewhere…

I don’t think you can force a society to become more equal (and we wouldn’t want to) but the cases of Japan and Sweden are interesting in that there was a conscious political decision taken to make the countries more equal. In Sweden I believe it was framed by the Social Democrats as being about building “the People’s Home” (they had some really nasty labour diputes in the pre-war period and society was far from harmonious) and in Japan it was a reaction to the humiliation of WW2 and a desire to get away from all their hierarchical/imperialist past. The Equality Trust is largely about providing information so that people can make their minds up about what sort of society they want – and thereby generate the necessary social and political will to make the correct choices. I would say that countries generally have the levels of inequality and poverty they choose to accept.

]]> By: N J Mayes http://www.leftfootforward.org/2010/01/memo-to-the-mainstream-wheres-the-vision-wheres-the-courage/comment-page-1/#comment-4649 N J Mayes Fri, 22 Jan 2010 16:47:17 +0000 http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=6652#comment-4649 What else do Japan, Sweden and Switzerland have in common? Not just low inequality but traditionally very low immigration, less tolerance of crime and disorder, and generally more social conservatism and more of the sort of 'one nation' cohesion that liberal multiculturalism, as much as economic liberalism, has weakened in Britain. Greater equality is a worth goal, but it's only half the story. What else do Japan, Sweden and Switzerland have in common? Not just low inequality but traditionally very low immigration, less tolerance of crime and disorder, and generally more social conservatism and more of the sort of ‘one nation’ cohesion that liberal multiculturalism, as much as economic liberalism, has weakened in Britain. Greater equality is a worth goal, but it’s only half the story.

]]> By: Joan Snow http://www.leftfootforward.org/2010/01/memo-to-the-mainstream-wheres-the-vision-wheres-the-courage/comment-page-1/#comment-7635 Joan Snow Thu, 21 Jan 2010 08:05:50 +0000 http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=6652#comment-7635 <span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">RT @equalitytrust: Memo to the mainstream: where's the vision, where's the courage? http://tinyurl.com/y9oa7rg</span></span> RT @equalitytrust: Memo to the mainstream: where's the vision, where's the courage? http://tinyurl.com/y9oa7rg

]]> By: Oxford Kevin http://www.leftfootforward.org/2010/01/memo-to-the-mainstream-wheres-the-vision-wheres-the-courage/comment-page-1/#comment-4521 Oxford Kevin Wed, 20 Jan 2010 21:30:46 +0000 http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=6652#comment-4521 Mark, you don't have to force a society to become more equal, but you can put in place policies that push it in that direction, in a far less aggressive way than Thatcher did to force Britain to become a far less equal society, whether she did that on purpose might be up for discussion but her policies had that result. Labour has tried to deal with the symptoms of inequality but made no attempt to deal with the cause of those problems. Demonstrating through its failure that you really can't do much about those social issues until you address the cause. Mark, you don’t have to force a society to become more equal, but you can put in place policies that push it in that direction, in a far less aggressive way than Thatcher did to force Britain to become a far less equal society, whether she did that on purpose might be up for discussion but her policies had that result. Labour has tried to deal with the symptoms of inequality but made no attempt to deal with the cause of those problems. Demonstrating through its failure that you really can’t do much about those social issues until you address the cause.

]]> By: One Society campaign http://www.leftfootforward.org/2010/01/memo-to-the-mainstream-wheres-the-vision-wheres-the-courage/comment-page-1/#comment-7636 One Society campaign Wed, 20 Jan 2010 16:40:28 +0000 http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=6652#comment-7636 <span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">RT @equalitytrust: Memo to the mainstream: where's the vision, where's the courage? http://tinyurl.com/y9oa7rg</span></span> RT @equalitytrust: Memo to the mainstream: where's the vision, where's the courage? http://tinyurl.com/y9oa7rg

]]> By: Arlene McKay http://www.leftfootforward.org/2010/01/memo-to-the-mainstream-wheres-the-vision-wheres-the-courage/comment-page-1/#comment-7637 Arlene McKay Wed, 20 Jan 2010 15:23:58 +0000 http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=6652#comment-7637 <span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">RT @equalitytrust: Memo to the mainstream: where's the vision, where's the courage? http://tinyurl.com/y9oa7rg</span></span> RT @equalitytrust: Memo to the mainstream: where's the vision, where's the courage? http://tinyurl.com/y9oa7rg

]]> By: The Equality Trust http://www.leftfootforward.org/2010/01/memo-to-the-mainstream-wheres-the-vision-wheres-the-courage/comment-page-1/#comment-7638 The Equality Trust Wed, 20 Jan 2010 15:23:04 +0000 http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=6652#comment-7638 <span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">Memo to the mainstream: where's the vision, where's the courage? http://tinyurl.com/y9oa7rg</span></span> Memo to the mainstream: where's the vision, where's the courage? http://tinyurl.com/y9oa7rg

]]> By: Mark http://www.leftfootforward.org/2010/01/memo-to-the-mainstream-wheres-the-vision-wheres-the-courage/comment-page-1/#comment-4498 Mark Wed, 20 Jan 2010 14:46:15 +0000 http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=6652#comment-4498 Can you force a society to become more equal? Britain's got thousands of years of feudalism to contend with, more cohesive societies like Japan, Sweden or Switzerland have very different structures as a result of a legacy of co-operation. I note that the government ditched most of the recommendations of Milburn's report yesterday. Income inequality is at an all time high under Labour, and I don't suspect the Tories will do much. So we're far from an "electoral majority", there's barely a minority in favour of changing things. Can you force a society to become more equal? Britain’s got thousands of years of feudalism to contend with, more cohesive societies like Japan, Sweden or Switzerland have very different structures as a result of a legacy of co-operation.

I note that the government ditched most of the recommendations of Milburn’s report yesterday. Income inequality is at an all time high under Labour, and I don’t suspect the Tories will do much. So we’re far from an “electoral majority”, there’s barely a minority in favour of changing things.

]]> By: John Booth http://www.leftfootforward.org/2010/01/memo-to-the-mainstream-wheres-the-vision-wheres-the-courage/comment-page-1/#comment-4497 John Booth Wed, 20 Jan 2010 14:45:27 +0000 http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=6652#comment-4497 How about suicide rates? And poverty? How about suicide rates? And poverty?

]]> By: David Wearing http://www.leftfootforward.org/2010/01/memo-to-the-mainstream-wheres-the-vision-wheres-the-courage/comment-page-1/#comment-7639 David Wearing Wed, 20 Jan 2010 14:34:40 +0000 http://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=6652#comment-7639 <span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">RT @leftfootfwd: Memo to the mainstream: where’s the vision, where’s the courage? http://is.gd/6FpYc</span></span> RT @leftfootfwd: Memo to the mainstream: where’s the vision, where’s the courage? http://is.gd/6FpYc

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