Published by , March 18th 2010 at 5:35 pm
The left-wing case for an English parliament
Our guest writer is Dave Dyke, creator and facilitator of England Left Forward
One of the major successes of the past 13 years, depending on your point of view, has been devolution. The establishment of the Scottish parliament and Welsh assembly, coupled with the advances in the Northern Ireland peace process that seemed impossible 20 years ago, have transformed the governance and the culture of three of the four nations within the Union.
However, this has left a big question at the heart of government, which has also had a knock-on effect culturally:
“How should England be governed?”
This is often referred to in the media as “The English Question”; it is a question that the major political parties have, so far, avoided answering in a satisfactory manner. In fact, the major parties seem to avoid any mention of England and Englishness altogether.
They have either pushed the British agenda or wished to impose the regionalisation of England against the will of the people. The failure of the English regional assembly referendum in the North East in 2004 was due to the proposed assembly being no more than a glorified county council, whose geographical area and powers were dictated from the centre, without consultation with the grassroots.
But there has also been a current of thought, especially on the left, that to debate England and Englishness is inherently racist. This has led to a subsequent reluctance to either encourage the flying of the flag of England or to celebrate St George’s Day.
This has acted as a marvellous recruiting sergeant for parties and organisations of the right and far-right, such as the BNP, with their promises of an English “Folk” Parliament – with its ensuing visions of Apartheid-era South Africa – and the English Defence League.
This is why I have established the England Left Forward network, and the aims are two-fold. The first aim is to provide a space for those of us on the left, whether politically active or otherwise, to articulate, debate and resolve the various aspects of the English Question, in particular with respect to providing England with a legitimate political voice.
The second aim is to identify a vision for the various aspects of England and Englishness that is not nationalistic in nature, but draws on the experience and contributions of all who engage in the debate. For England is a country; it is not a colour, a race or a religion.
Where there’s disagreement on the aims, we hope to come to an accommodation that’s acceptable to all involved. Where there’s agreement, we intend to articulate the most appropriate way of taking things forward.
Currently the left seem to be playing a game of catch-up with the right over the English Question. If we can offer a collective, forward-looking, dynamic and all-inclusive vision of England and Englishness that the people of England can sign up to, as opposed to the nationalistic jingoism and flag-waving of the right, the game, although anything but, will be back on equal terms.
Let’s get working on that vision!
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Though I am not English, I believe that England does deserve the right to have its own Parliament/Assembly. I look forward to observing the discussion on this important issue.
This is a good idea. The debate on this topic that involved Billy Bragg and Pat Kane on Newsnight Review (sic) was much of a higher quality than much of that on Newsnight. All I would say is that there needs to be much more regional responsiveness from any centre that is created. Here in Scotland, this is a real problem and there are many regions that are languishing, becoming commuter areas for Edinburgh and Glasgow which makes it hard for local people trying to remain where they want to be. I would also suggest that there needs to be some thought put into making links between border areas. These imaginary lines are quite real to those living on either side.
Thank god the left have finally woken up to this one.
We need to encourage a sense of civic national identity for England and answer the English Question. We cannot ignore it any longer.
(BTW you need an anti spam duberry)
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The left-wing case for an English parliament | Left Foot Forward http://tinyurl.com/yakyt77
The last thing anyone needs is another layer of bureaucrats and an even bigger State.
England already has representation: MPs.
In line with this, Scotland should combine MP and MSP elections and the winner sit in Holyrood during Scottish matters and come to Westminster for UK-wide matters. The same should happen with the MAs in Wales.
Lot’s of your own party members disgaree with you Roger, just take a gander at the Libertarian Party membership of the English Free Press.
In any case you’re constructing a Straw man argument if your arguement against an English parliament is based upon “more politicians and more bureaucrats”. Unlike devolution to Scotland and Wales we don’t need to create a new English civil service, we just make parts of Whitehall responsible to the English Parliament, English Government and the English public. The UK Parliament can be drastically reduced in numbers to reflect it’s drastically lower workload, and the Lords can be reformed to reflect the new federal framework by scrutinising both reserved and devolved matters (at present Scotland, Wales and NI have unicameral systems). Alternatively the Commons could be an English parliament with 400 members – the number it was originally designed to accomodate – and the Lords could be the federal parliament with powers of recall over the legislation of the national parliaments.
“Scotland should combine MP and MSP elections and the winner sit in Holyrood during Scottish matters and come to Westminster for UK-wide matters”
You’re in the wrong party because this is UKIP policy, and also the policy of certain Tories (who get sacked for it). The reason James Gray had to ’step down’ is because the Scots don’t want to abolish their MSPs in favour of dual mandate MPs, and the Welsh don’t want to abolish their AMs either. Abolishing the Assembly Members at Stormont could undermine the peace process with terrible results. It’s all very well proposing a dual mandate system, but the time to do that was pre-1997 when there was a possibility, however remote, of you persuading people that it was a preferable system (personally I think it’s a moronic idea because a politician cannot serve two masters and be elected on a Scottish and UK manifesto – conflict of interest – but it doesn’t much matter because it is going to happen).
I may be in favour of devolution, but not that in favour of devolution.
The EDL want black and white to unite. It is unfair to label them as racists.
If they were campaigning against extreme christian fundamentalism they would be cheered on by the left. let’s have an English Parliament for all in England.stop this nonsense by politicians and the media that England does not exist.However, I strongly believe that the issue of an English Parliament should be put to the people of England by referendum. An English Parliament should not come about as a last resort of defeated unionist politicians.
The left-wing case for an English parliament | Left Foot Forward http://cli.gs/5YbtT
This election the people of Scotland will be voting for a fellow Scot to continue making laws for the English but not for the Scottish ! The Scots will be laughing all the way to the ballot box….
The Labour party (if that is what is meant by ‘the left’) has first to overcome its irrational fear that any expression of an English national political will immediately cause the Scots, Welsh & N Irish to take flight and bring about the end of the Union. People in the devolved nations are perfectly relaxed on the issue and indeed many are amazed that the English are not more vocicerously demanding their own assembly. More rationally the LP fears that it will not be able to win an outright majority in an English Parliament, which might, initially, be dominated by Tories.
Faced with the reality however, the left would coalesce into a new group and England would not be a ‘one-party’ state for very long, if at all. Meanwhile, attempting to address the English Question by fiddling about with unwanted regional select committees, whose meetings have so far been farcical, leaves the party without any realistic policy to encompass the natural desire the people of England to determine their own policies.
[...] The left-wing case for an English parliament | Left Foot Forward [...]
“More rationally the LP fears that it will not be able to win an outright majority in an English Parliament, which might, initially, be dominated by Tories.”
I think that’s called democracy. However, like you say, it wouldn’t remain like that for long, just look how Labour have lost power in their Scottish heartland. There’s no benefit to England in constantly electing a blue government, not to mention the fact that it would be nigh-on impossible under proportional representation – which would be another benefit of an English parliament.
Why doesn’t England have its own parliament? Because it is in the United Kingdom.
However, Scotland being in the UK was the argument for Scotland, uniquely, having its own parliament.
Barry,
I agree the people of England should be asked first whether they want devolution. Peter Facey of Unlock Democracy has suggested an English Devolution Enabling Bill. If the people of England say “Yes”, then the discussions about what form devolution should take can occur. If “No”, it may be back to seeing how local government can be strengthened.
Whatever form of devolution for England comes about, proportional representation is the logical approach to electing the bodies. The voters would not stomach FPTP anymore, especially with the shenanigans at Westminster. What from of PR should be used is open to debate: I would prefer Single Transferable Vote as it puts more power in the hands of the voter rather than the party machines. Others may prefer the Additional member System as it gives smaller parties a chance of representation. All options for discussion.
Ian, there are still people in the Labour Party who would consider themselves to be on the Left, even if the New Labour leadership seems anything but. But my network is not just aimed at Labour: it’s aimed at anyone on the Left, be they socialists, social democrats, liberals, greens etc. I personally am not a member of any party, with the establishment of this network I aim to remain impartial while a consensus amongst the broad Left can be achieved.
I do agree that there is this irrational fear that English devolution will spend the end of the Union. Federalists seem to have the more level-headed approach to this issue. There’s no point setting up an Englsih Left party, maybe the best approach is for the parties of the British Left to become federal parties and have part of the federal party being an England-based party. I know the Lib Dems claim to be federeral, but there isn’t a Lib Dem England party, only a Lib Dem Scots Party and a Lib Dem Welsh Party…
Left Foot Forward/Dave Dyke – The left-wing case for an English parliament http://bit.ly/9QlGUQ
“Lib Dem England party”
Oh yes there is.
The left-wing case for an English Parliament @leftfootfwd http://bit.ly/9QlGUQ
“”Lib Dem England party”
Oh yes there is.”
Apologies if I’ve misunderstood how the Lib Dem party is made up. Probably because I could never find a page for England on the site, though it was always possible to find contact details for a regional party or a local party.
Take a look at the Lib Dem Constitution, there is an English Party. It even has an address, but sadly no website.
One of the drawbacks of relying on the Internet for a lot of information searching, not everything is there at your fingertips!
Thanks for that, I’ll pop and have a look.
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[...] The left-wing case for an English parliament | Left Foot Forward [...]
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“Peter Facey of Unlock Democracy has suggested an English Devolution Enabling Bill. If the people of England say “Yes”, then the discussions about what form devolution should take can occur. If “No”, it may be back to seeing how local government can be strengthened.”
Sounds great. But how likely is it that it will happen? Unfathomably unlikely I would say, unless the English rise up and take it. You’re basically asking the three main parties to agree to popular sovereignty for England, in an echo of the Scottish Claim of Right:
This Scottisg claim to popular sovereignty was agreed to because of the threat of Scottish separatism. The Scottish Claim of Right went on to declare and pledge that “our actions and deliberations shall be directed to…agree a scheme for an Assembly or Parliament for Scotland” because they understood that the threat was a nationalist threat, not a demand for localism or regionalism. Popular sovereignty for Scotland was delivered on that basis, under that (nationalist) threat.
Like Scottish nationalism in the 80s, today it is English nationalism that carries the biggest threat to Westminster sovereignty. Not English regionalism or English localism, but English nationalism. It’s only English nationalism that will deliver popular sovereignty for England (which may well result in Peter’s enabling act) because it is only that which has the potential to challenge the sovereignty of Westminster.
I think an English parliament is the correct body to devolve power within England, and I can see how a committee system in a new English parliament could bring in local politicians, and bring together MPs of certain regions, to work together on local/regional interests. There’s not much time in the present Parliament because of the sheer weight of British Government business, and Westminster MPs are precious about their privileges and sovereignty to the extent they they won’t tolerate local politicians at Westminster, but it doesn’t have to be that way.
[...] The left-wing case for an English parliament | Left Foot Forward [...]
[...] The left-wing case for an English parliament | Left Foot Forward [...]
[...] The left-wing case for an English parliament | Left Foot Forward [...]
[...] The left-wing case for an English parliament | Left Foot Forward [...]
[...] The left-wing case for an English parliament | Left Foot Forward [...]
It was claimed earlier in the thread that;
“More rationally the LP fears that it will not be able to win an outright majority in an English Parliament, which might, initially, be dominated by Tories.”
This “fear” is born of a myth perpetuated by those who believe England would have had no Labour govts if not for the Scots imposing them on it. This is not actually true.
Since WW2, only three times has England voted Tory only to have a Labour govt installed that Scotland voted for. The first time was in 1950 and that govt lasted 1 year before another election was called and a Tory govt elected. The second time was in 1964 and that govt lasted 2 years before Labour was re-elected with an English mandate in 1966. The last time was in Spring 1974 and that govt lasted about 6 months before another election was called and Labour were again re-elected with an English mandate. ALL other Labour govts have been elected with an English mandate. (House of Commons records)
In summary, England has had a Labour govt “imposed” by Scotland a grand total of 3.5 years since WW2. England has had a Westminster Labour govt it voted for a total of 27 years. It is simply a myth to claim England is a one Party state. By contrast, Scotland has endured decades of Tory govt despite having massively rejected that Party at the polls.
[...] The left-wing case for an English parliament | Left Foot Forward [...]
[...] The left-wing case for an English parliament | Left Foot Forward [...]
[...] The left-wing case for an English parliament | Left Foot Forward [...]
[...] The left-wing case for an English parliament | Left Foot Forward [...]
[...] The left-wing case for an English parliament | Left Foot Forward [...]
[...] The left-wing case for an English parliament | Left Foot Forward [...]
[...] The left-wing case for an English parliament | Left Foot Forward [...]
Hmmm. Not so much a discussion as a spam fest
[...] The left-wing case for an English parliament | Left Foot Forward [...]
[...] The left-wing case for an English parliament | Left Foot Forward [...]
[...] The left-wing case for an English parliament | Left Foot Forward [...]
I agree that England would not be One Party state for long but the opposition would not be the Labour Party in any recognisable form .It would be more like the Liberal Party or perhaps the Democrats,.The next fear for Labour is that Scots and Welsh collectivism will turn out not to be an expression of the racial inferiority of the English but simply the side their bread is buttered.
Labour in the Celtic dependencies ,unable to bribe with English money, would not last for long either. There would be a left of course but the overall effect would be a final end to the socialist experiment of the 20th century which only perists in ossified outlying areas
On the voting system in England I doubt you could sell PR which coud only be imposed and when the implications were clear I doubt the English would
want any more elections.
On the Conservative side finding it self in a more cultural war than a doctrinal one a reinvention would be required bearing some resemblance to the Cameron project but a far deeper and truer shift into tune with the country. Scotaolnd may love its hand outs but it is nothing like as progrssive as England
I like the sound of this new Nation but it is rightly feared by the Labour Party which could not survive
[...] The left-wing case for an English parliament | Left Foot Forward [...]
[...] The left-wing case for an English parliament | Left Foot Forward [...]
Labour shouldn’t fear an English Parliament. Labour would have won the last three elections, including 2005 when the Tories won the popular vote. See here …
http://www.psr.keele.ac.uk/area/uk/ge05/seats.htm
In terms of popular vote, Labour got 58,000 less votes in England than the Tories (due to turnout being low in safe Labour seats and because lots of previous Labour votes went to Respect).
If you went for PR (ie equality with Scotland and Wales) tactical voting would unravel and Labour support would rise. More importantly the Tories would never get an overall majority – they’d be forced into coalition mode and to do that, they’d have to move to the centre.
“Hmmm. Not so much a discussion as a spam fest”
Yes, it does give rather a false impression. There’s me thinking the discussion is going well due to the number of comments, but it’s just spam filling up the comments page.
Any chance of getting an anti-spam duberry fitted?
“If you went for PR (ie equality with Scotland and Wales) tactical voting would unravel and Labour support would rise. More importantly the Tories would never get an overall majority – they’d be forced into coalition mode and to do that, they’d have to move to the centre.”
And, of course, the beauty of PR is no more safe seats as we currently know it under FPTP…