More pressure on Clegg as we reveal real cost of Green’s £285m tax avoidance

RT @leftfootfwd: More pressure on Clegg as we reveal real cost of Green’s £285m tax avoidance: http://bit.ly/csQ435 #ConDemNation

RT @leftfootfwd More pressure on Clegg as we reveal real cost of Green’s £285m tax avoidance: http://bit.ly/csQ435 #ConDemNation

RT @leftfootfwd: More pressure on Clegg as we reveal real cost of Green's £285m tax avoidance http://bit.ly/csQ435

RT @leftfootfwd: More pressure on Clegg as we reveal real cost of Green’s £285m tax avoidance: http://bit.ly/csQ435 #ConDemNation

RT @leftfootfwd: More pressure on Clegg as we reveal real cost of Green’s £285m tax avoidance: http://bit.ly/csQ435 #ConDemNation

RT @leftfootfwd: More pressure on Clegg as we reveal real cost of Green’s £285m tax avoidance: http://bit.ly/csQ435 #ConDemNation

Shamik – What’s he doing that’s illegal?

Why is it the left hate the rich whilst they spend their time hob nobbing with the wealthy and becoming multi millionaires from public service?

The Kinnocks? – Why is it OK for Labour peers to become multi millionaires from European TAXPAYERS yet this man can’t earn a living legally without petty spiteful criticism from the left.

Typical Labour hypocrisy still. Have the left learned nothing after May 6th?

RT @leftfootfwd: More pressure on Clegg as we reveal real cost of Green’s £285m tax avoidance: http://bit.ly/csQ435 #ConDemNation

RT @leftfootfwd More pressure on Clegg as we reveal real cost of Green’s £285m tax avoidance: http://bit.ly/csQ435 #ConDemNation

More pressure on Clegg as we reveal real cost of Green’s £285m tax avoidance: http://bit.ly/csQ435 #ConDemNation @leftfootfwd

RT @leftfootfwd: More pressure on Clegg as we reveal real cost of Green’s £285m tax avoidance: http://bit.ly/csQ435 #ConDemNation

RT @leftfootfwd: More pressure on Clegg as we reveal real cost of Green’s £285m tax avoidance: http://bit.ly/csQ435 #ConDemNation

“In 2009, annual gross median pay in the public sector was £22,405 – that’s 12,720 public sector workers employed for a year had he paid all his taxes.”

No, it isn’t – £22,405 is the salary received by the employee, not the cost of employment. Factor in NI and pension contributions and your ‘public sector workers employed’ figure would drop significantly.

Still, I agree with the point.

Anon, it isn’t illegal – that’s the point. Clegg pledged to crack down on these loopholes; it’s time for him to act.

Shamik – What law would you introduce to tax people that do not live in this country?

@Mouse

So you aren’t really a LibDem at all but rather, it seems, a high tory. What is it with tories and astroturfing; the TPA, drivers alliance, new schools network and of course Cameron himself. Rather than present your ideas and ideology as it is; the embodiment of selfish, nasty, social Darwinism you attempt to con your way into the mainstream.

I don’t hate the rich, I just want them to pay their taxes. Attacking Kinnock shows the class hatred endemic in tories, anybody who speaks for those who don’t have a voice must live and stay living below the poverty line. Otherwise they’re champagne socialists betraying their own kind, the wealthy, by trying to build a fairer society.

As you say, nothing that Sir Philip Green is doing is illegal. People keep mentioning the so-called tax avoidance in a way that makes him out to be a serial criminial, when he isn’t.

I cover this issue in more detail here:

http://bit.ly/b0BgVX

Shamik – Fair point.

Chris – Been Labour my whole life – family as well until the last election. Whatever.

The Conservatives are in government Chris – they are the mainstream, you’re not. Remember Chris Labour lost the election and if your attitude is common amongst Labour Party members you really have a long time in opposition ahead.

The Kinnocks have made £millions from public service, which in itself sounds like a contradiction – bit like John Prescott being in the House of Lords or Lord Hattersley.

Myself I prefer Tony Benn but then I guess I’m more left of centre than you clearly are. Supporting George Bush with his overseas adventures and the 90 days detention and ID cards, databases, speed cameras, the Met police at the G20, control orders etc and claiming that builds a fairer society is madness. Fairer for who?

To try to insult me by claiming I’m right wing with that baggage you support redefines the term.

As for staying below the poverty line remind me again how Gordon Brown removing the 10p tax rate helped the poor? This progressive coalition government, which I accept is really Tory, has done more in 100 days to raise 800K people out of poverty than Labour did in 13 years…

Anon

“This progressive coalition government, which I accept is really Tory, has done more in 100 days to raise 800K people out of poverty than Labour did in 13 years…”

I don’t think you will be saying that in May next year when the harsh reality of The ConDem cuts kick in…..

[...] More… [...]

Surely the main point of this story is not what Green is doing… that is a philosophical matter as it is, without doubt legal (“Is it right to take every possible opportunity to avoid paying tax including putting share ownership in the name of a wife who has the good fortune to be Monegasque?”), but rather that it is yet another nail in the coffin of the ill met by moonlight coalition.

Incidentally, on a philosophical note, one might ponder upon the moral question of, given the way in which Green makes his money, legally of course, but morally suspect, is he a fitting person to advise government at all… and the answer, given the way governments operate may well be yes in principle, but now that it is widely known what he is up to, possibly no.

…or from another point of view Madame Green may wonder if it was her feminine charms or her fortunate nationality that get her into Mr Green’s bed…. although she may already know the answer to that.

…and mischievously, what would he do if she decided to put it all in the bank of Monaco and not let him get his hands on it? What with Monaco being out with the EU, he might lose the lot.

Anyway, in plain terms, as I say it’s all about how many LibDem backbenchers can be pissed off and what extent that is likely to happen….

Liz – Wait and see. My parents didn’t vote Labour for the first time in their whole lives (they are in their 70′s) and they love the coalition – loads of people do.

Prime example was Nick Clegg in charge with Cameron away entered Downing St from a side entrance. Compare that with the fanfare Harman and Prescott made sweeping up in their chauffeur driven Jaguar looking serious.

This whole new approach is a breath of fresh air and I simply do not believe they will cut like they say…

Anon,

Re Philip Green’s appointment – I heard ex Granada boss Gerry Robinson on R4 the other day talking about this (he took part in a tv programme about reforming/improving the NHS so he understands something about the public sector). Anyway even he was rather disparaging about Green’s abilities and his simplistic ideas of how he was going to perform his new task and deploying the tactics he uses in his retail empire was not the best way forward.

Anon – I meant to add this… as well as cutting things like the Tories said they would, they are also cutting things that they said the would NOT… eg The Winter Fuel Allowance….

Not the breath of fresh air at all that you suggest….

http://www.leftfootforward.org/2010/08/read-my-lips-cameron-told-voters-on-winter-fuel-allowance/#comments

Damning figures from @leftfootforward on Green's tax avoidance http://bit.ly/9yrK9o

Liz – Currently my parents and my business partner’s parents both get winter fuel allowance which they do not need. I have three friends who live overseas – two in Malta and one in Spain and they all get the same allowance – it’s madness. It should always have been means tested and should be now. The welfare state should be to help the less well off, not give child benefit to people irrespective of their earnings.

Whereas one could argue about things people say in an election campaign not being implemented in government – the referendum on the Lisbon Treaty and tuition fees from Labour for example – but I think in this case the government is right.

Remember Gordon Brown and his thugs “unleashed the forces of hell” on Alistair Darling (his words) when he wanted a comprehensive spending review and to announce cuts, which meant that when the coalition took office they had no way of knowing exactly how bad the mess the country was left in “All the money’s gone. Good luck”.

That’s from Labour’s last treasury minister as well – they are not making the mess up and the Tories and Lib Dems are in a coalition where compromises are made.

Like the referendum on Lisbon – it’s no different, except Labour lost the election and their supporters, being tribal and unprogressive can’t move on.

If wishes were horses beggers would ride…

Tories Tax Payers Alliance
very quiet on Eric Pickles new specialadapted £70k Jag
replacing perfectly good Lexus

also quite re Westminister Council sponsoring Conservative Party conference

Tax Payers Alliance wont care to attack Pickles as he supports them
and their fringe with the Freedom associationat Tory conference

just who does fund the tax payers alliance
why dont they publish accounts online
because their supporters dont pay tax in the UK????

Wouldn’t be surprised with Clegg.

[...] More pressure on Clegg as we reveal real cost of Green’s £285m tax avoidance | Left Foot Forward [...]

@Mental Mouse

Mouse, we have established on previous threads that straw polls of the other patients, even if they are related, doesn’t give any insight into public opinion.

“This progressive coalition government, which I accept is really Tory, has done more in 100 days to raise 800K people out of poverty than Labour did in 13 years…”

Oh dear, major relapse, a lobotomy may be the best treatment option for you, mouse. Your’ll have a far better quality of life sat dribbling in the corner unconcerned by politics or incontinence. To tackle your delusional suggestion head on lets look at the facts:

- The coalition have given an across the board tax income tax cut to those earning less than the 40% threshold. This does nothing to help those living on less that the previous income tax threshold who are the very poorest in society; for example, the 2.5 million jobseekers.

- To pay for this income tax cut the tories have increased VAT, which not only wipes out the income tax cut those 800,000 “taken out of tax” but is an absolutely sickening hammer blow to those on the lowest incomes who didn’t gain anything from the personal allowance increase.

In your reality that may be the most progressive policy since graduated income tax but in the real world, outside the confines of your secure unit, it is tradition high tory policy being promoted as progressive. Another example of astroturfing tories, aided and abetted by Calamity Clegg and the other proto-tories.

Chris – Why don’t you care about the plight of the poor in our country?

Chris – Just a small point but the 2.5 million job seekers don’t actually pay tax. I never mentioned job seekers, you did. Please don’t do strawman on me…

Remember what you’ve been told Chris; Labour lost the election.

Anon,

You write …”Prime example was Nick Clegg in charge with Cameron away entered Downing St from a side entrance. Compare that with the fanfare Harman and Prescott made sweeping up in their chauffeur driven Jaguar looking serious.”

Good front page photo opportunity I agree. Think you will find that a lot of the Con Dem ministers have swapped their Prius green cars and are smugly swanning about in gas guzzling Jags etc.

[...] his most sustained periods of pressure – from the press, Opposition and, as Left Foot Forward reported yesterday, his own backbenchers – over the issue of tax avoidance, which he had pledged to [...]

Liz – There’s not as many Jags as under Labour – they got rid of loads of them…

[...] billionaire Sir Philip’s (entirely legal) tax schemes meant that he avoided paying an estimated £285m in tax in 2005 after he transferred control of most of his business empire to his Monaco-based wife for [...]

@Mental Mouse

Is that the best you can come up with, you must be under heavy sedation.

“Chris – Just a small point but the 2.5 million job seekers don’t actually pay tax. I never mentioned job seekers, you did. Please don’t do strawman on me…”

Oh, you got me, I didn’t realise that as a jobseeker you could apply for a VAT exemption card; making all purchases zero VAT rated. I’m out of touch I suppose being a multi-million area champagne socialist rather than a struggling graduate with no money.

“Remember what you’ve been told Chris; Labour lost the election.”

Mouse, have they chemically coshed you? Because your arguments are becoming just plain lazy.

Chris – Please don’t stop your posts dude – this is more comical than the Now Show!!(not hard)

To date on this blog you have derided me for misspelling the current chancellors name yet you misspelt a common noun in that very same post.

You have said you voted for Jack Dromey because he was a good MP – a position I explained he had never held – it was a Labour stitch up.

You have called me homophobic in the very thread that I explained I was not and anyway it was a post you cannot have read because Will Straw removed it.

(I accept Will Straw falsely assumed there had been homophobia since he was educated in the US).

You have claimed I am a Tory, even though I explained my whole family were lifelong Labour voters.

You have been openly rude and insulting in a typically Labour Party smearing manner and never once have you answered anything you have been asked.

You have criticised me for comments you have claimed I have made even though I have not and although I am not sure what a “multi-million area(?) champagne socialist” is at least I can rest easy knowing your degree can’t possibly be in politics.

Let me try again: As for staying below the poverty line remind me how Gordon Brown removing the 10p tax rate helped the poor?

If I had been chemically coshed how would I know Chris?

Remember Chris before you even press your first key in response: I must remember Labour LOST the election… I must remember Labour LOST the election… I must remember Labour LOST the election… I must remember Labour LOST the election… I must remember Labour LOST the election… I must remember Labour LOST the election…

@Mental Mouse

“To date on this blog you have derided me for misspelling the current chancellors name yet you misspelt a common noun in that very same post.
You have said you voted for Jack Dromey because he was a good MP – a position I explained he had never held – it was a Labour stitch up.”

You’re confusing me with another Chris who seems to post occasionally. You can spot the difference because I use capital letters and he generally doesn’t at the start of his posts. A conspiratorially minded person might think that it was in fact your sock puppet in an attempt to discredit me.

“You have called me homophobic in the very thread that I explained I was not and anyway it was a post you cannot have read because Will Straw removed it.

(I accept Will Straw falsely assumed there had been homophobia since he was educated in the US).”

That was me but I was going by what Will Straw said.

“You have claimed I am a Tory, even though I explained my whole family were lifelong Labour voters.”

You said you were a LibDem! Your constant attacks on Labour would make any reasonable person believe you were not a Labour supporter.

“You have been openly rude and insulting in a typically Labour Party smearing manner and never once have you answered anything you have been asked.”

Yawn, grow up Mouse. You attacked Joss Garman for being a nauseating apologist for the Labour party when he had never voted for them and been arrested campaigning against their policies.

“You have criticised me for comments you have claimed I have made even though I have not and although I am not sure what a “multi-million area(?) champagne socialist” is at least I can rest easy knowing your degree can’t possibly be in politics.”

My fingers didn’t type quite what I was thinking, a common occurrence, that line should read “multi-millionaire champagne socialist”.

Where I have I claimed you made said comments? Delusions can be a side affect of some psychiatric drugs.

“Let me try again: As for staying below the poverty line remind me how Gordon Brown removing the 10p tax rate helped the poor?”

It didn’t, it was a cock up on Brown’s part but he brought in other measures to compensate those adversely affected. This is well known, your racking it up doesn’t prove anything except your own hatred of the Labour party.

“If I had been chemically coshed how would I know Chris?”

Your previous reply was so lazy that I assumed you had been, your latest reply is much more energetic, if a little whiny. So, hopefully your just being physically restrained now rather than pharmacologically.

“Remember Chris before you even press your first key in response: I must remember Labour LOST the election… I must remember Labour LOST the election… I must remember Labour LOST the election… I must remember Labour LOST the election… I must remember Labour LOST the election… I must remember Labour LOST the election…”

Yawn, will you repeat to yourself that straw polls of family members are about as interesting and informative as a focus group of coma patients.

Chris – You were “going by what Will Straw said”. Since you must have read my post and since you have no idea what I said why would you falsely call me homophobic without knowing either what I said or if I was?

You have also called me a Tory even though I have clearly stated I’m not. (I have voted Labour my whole life until the last election where I voted Independent. Ironically Labour won. I have stated that I do support the Lib Dems; to date I have never voted for them but certainly will do next time)

From those actions I can reasonably conclude you are smearing me in a typically Labour fashion.

The 10p tax fiasco was not a cock up – Brown controlled Downing St in a Stalinist way – it was intentional. I suppose now you’ll argue that not allowing soldiers who fought for us for over 100 years to reside here, the Gurkha’s, was a cock up as well.

As an ex Labour voter I can assure you that people who display the type of support you show, with your sneering arrogant attitude and inability to understand WHY Labour lost the last election will keep the party from power for many years in this country.

There was a time Labour used to represent the working classes in Britain but that seems a LONG time ago now and unless critics like me go on and on and on and on about what is wrong they will do nothing to put it right.

I could list hypocrisy by the bucket about this useless bunch and the public don’t like it. Where I work you could put a monkey in a red shirt and it would win but I detect a shift. In pubs people now say “They’re not Labour anymore, not the party my parents voted for”. And that’s South Wales.

I’m right Chris, you’re wrong and you can argue black is white until you’re blue, or in your case red in the face but Labour lost the election. Try asking why.

Now where’s that nurse….

@Mental Mouse

“In pubs people now say “They’re not Labour anymore, not the party my parents voted for”. And that’s South Wales.”

LOL, you’ve convinced me of the validity of your arguments. Your parents and the mentally ill I can ignore but no some bloke down the pub, I’m with you Mouse!!!

“I’m right Chris, you’re wrong and you can argue black is white until you’re blue, or in your case red in the face but Labour lost the election. Try asking why.”

It might help your arguments if you tried putting them in less absolute terms, which only re-enforce the suggestion that you’re either an egotist with an axe to grind. Or a common troll, polluting this site with endless criticisms of Labour and gushing praise for anything the coalition do.

Since you’re into politics you realised at the European elections last year the Tories were the largest majority in Wales so it was confirming what you already knew.

I suppose the general election did that in May where Labour got the second lowest vote in their history, equal to Michael Foot’s days although how they actually got 28% of people in this country to vote for them is beyond me.

Still with no false election promises next time from the likes of the unelected cabinet member, Peter Mandelson, let’s see how Labour fare. They feel irrelevant already.

I have no shades of grey where hypocrisy, lies and general deceit are concerned – particularly where less fortunate people are dumped on by their government.

An egotist? Yes and with a BIG axe to grind about what these people have done to the Labour Party.

They deserve criticism when they behave as they do. You may be prepared to justify the unjustifiable Chris but I’m certainly not. I assumed Labour would learn a lesson from their defeat but judging by the leadership election and their supporters on this blog it appears, unusually for me, I’m wrong.

Have a nice weekend.

Chris – Your knee jerk response about my parents was incorrect – I said “people’s parents” in the pub although my grandfather, a Labour councillor will be turning in his grave…

@Mental Mouse

“my grandfather, a Labour councillor will be turning in his grave…”

Oh this is so funny!!! Another relative adding their weight to your argument! But this one is doubly compromised by the fact he is dead, LOL a focus group of stiffs – did you conduct it by séance?

“Since you’re into politics you realised at the European elections last year the Tories were the largest majority in Wales so it was confirming what you already knew.”

The focus group of corpses would be a more accurate indication of political sentiment since the turnout in Euro elections is minimal. FFS the kippers got second highest percentage of the vote.

“I suppose the general election did that in May where Labour got the second lowest vote in their history, equal to Michael Foot’s days although how they actually got 28% of people in this country to vote for them is beyond me.”

Says it all really doesn’t it, you have no understanding of working people, what they care about and what they want from the state.

“Still with no false election promises next time from the likes of the unelected cabinet member, Peter Mandelson, let’s see how Labour fare. They feel irrelevant already.”

Oh, you can feel it in your waters can you? How much do you charge to conduct séances? Do you palm readings over the internet?

“I have no shades of grey where hypocrisy, lies and general deceit are concerned – particularly where less fortunate people are dumped on by their government.
An egotist? Yes and with a BIG axe to grind about what these people have done to the Labour Party.”

Interesting…

“They deserve criticism when they behave as they do. You may be prepared to justify the unjustifiable Chris but I’m certainly not. I assumed Labour would learn a lesson from their defeat but judging by the leadership election and their supporters on this blog it appears, unusually for me, I’m wrong.”

Lets just highlight the breathtaking narcissism at the end of that quote:

“…it appears, unusually for me, I’m wrong.”

Looks like a textbook example of it appears, unusually for me, I’m wrong..

Mouse, you arguments follow no logic and are incoherent. One minute you sound like a high tory, the next your a trot; you’re obviously not a serious contributor but rather a troll. You simply want to attack and trash the Labour party, I would suspect you of being a paid astroturfing troll but for the amateurish and childish nature of your posts. Inferring you have your finger on the pulse of the nation by constantly referring to your family, friends and blokes down the pub doesn’t fool anybody.

Go on come back at me with yet another quote from a relative, friend (real or imaginary), stranger or spirit. Better still just be quite like the men in white coats want you to be…

Damn digits!

Looks like a textbook example of it appears, unusually for me, I’m wrong..

Should read – Looks like a textbook example of NPD.

Chris – I can only assume you are being deliberately objectionable for your own reasons – perhaps it’s in your nature. Instead of going line by line, which to me looks slightly obsessive, why not answer the points you are asked instead of being insulting?

The reason I mention my grand father is to show that, despite your smearing and constant challenge over the things I have explained are true – such as I am NOT a “Tory troll” – it has nothing to do with what my family think.

You have no ideas if my arguments are coherent because you won’t answer them and the reason is that you can’t, so you simply resort to smearing.

When I say Labour lost massive numbers of council seats last year it is a fact – something not open to speculation, just a fact. Your answer, in typical Labour fashion is to look for excuses rather than face the facts so you say no one votes in the Euro’s.

That is not true Chris. Less people voted for Labour in the Europeans than other parties is a fact.

So far every leadership candidate has stated the same facts that I have (even Ed Balls on R5 this morning) – Labour lost the popular vote and the election.

It was Labour’s worst election result since Michael Foot ran the party and Gordon Brown’s personal popularity ratings were the worst of any Prime Minister since records began. That’s why Labour lost the election.

Now tell me, preferably without personal insults please what is factually inaccurate about that statement – this is an evidenced based blog btw.

Finally I have been working class my whole life and a member of the T&GW’s union since before you were born (assuming you are a hard up graduate not studying politics obviously) I suspect you on the other hand are a working class wannabe because it is clear you have no concept of life at the bottom.

By excusing bad behaviour that affects peoples lives to make them poorer, such as the NI increases and PFI hospitals and the mess Labour left us in you are not making it clear that it is unacceptable and consequently you and your kind have made Labour unpopular.

If something is wrong it is wrong period. Now remember what you’ve been told Chris, because once again it is a fact: Labour lost the election…

Gents, this is in danger of getting completely out of hand; it’s time now to shake hands and move on. Once again, the post in question, the case of Philip Green and the rights and wrongs of his alleged tax avoidance, has been completely lost.

Shamik – Cool. I’ve moved on dude…

I think comedian Jon Richardson accurately summed up Sir Philip Green last night (Thurs October 14th) on the BBC show “Have I Got News For You”.

He described him as a “fat greedy shit”.

[...] the Tories, and the party’s refusal to take action against it, from Lord Ashcroft to Philip Green and the circle of hedge fund managers surrounding the chancellor, and in February, we reported how [...]

[...] and highlights question marks over the tax residency plans of Kraft (which owns Cadbury) and the tax affairs of Sir Philip Green who owns Topshop. In an article titled ‘This plunder of our heritage‘, Brummer writes: [...]

[...] refusal to take action against and clamp down on tax avoidance, from Lord Ashcroft to Philip Green and the circle of hedge fund managers surrounding the Chancellor, while in February, we reported [...]

[...] Image courtesy of http://www.leftfootforward.org. [...]