Labour should campaign on AV

RT @leftfootfwd: Labour should campaign on AV as @Ed_Miliband promised they would http://bit.ly/c7psx3

RT @leftfootfwd: Labour should campaign on AV as @Ed_Miliband promised they would http://bit.ly/c7psx3

RT @leftfootfwd: Labour should campaign on AV as @Ed_Miliband promised they would http://bit.ly/c7psx3

RT @leftfootfwd: Labour should campaign on AV as @Ed_Miliband promised they would http://bit.ly/c7psx3

RT @leftfootfwd: Labour should campaign on AV as @Ed_Miliband promised they would http://bit.ly/c7psx3

Exactly this! –> RT @leftfootfwd: Labour should campaign on AV as @Ed_Miliband promised they would http://bit.ly/c7psx3 #YestoAV

RT @leftfootfwd: Labour should campaign on AV as @Ed_Miliband promised they would http://bit.ly/c7psx3

RT @leftfootfwd: Labour should campaign on AV as @Ed_Miliband promised they would http://bit.ly/c7psx3

RT @leftfootfwd: Labour should campaign on AV as @Ed_Miliband promised they would http://bit.ly/c7psx3

RT @leftfootfwd: Labour should campaign on AV as @Ed_Miliband promised they would http://bit.ly/c7psx3

I would like Labour to campaign #Yes2AV as @wdjstraw says here: http://s.coop/51u But is the party is too divided on the issue?

5 reasons why Labour should campaign on AV (as @Ed_Miliband said they would) http://bit.ly/c7psx3

RT @leftfootfwd: Labour should campaign on AV as @Ed_Miliband promised they would http://bit.ly/c7psx3

RT @thedancingflea: I would like Labour to campaign #Yes2AV http://s.coop/51u But is the party is too divided on the issue? < Afraid so.

RT @wdjstraw: 5 reasons why Labour should campaign on AV (as @Ed_Miliband said they would) http://bit.ly/c7psx3

Oh dear. Looks like Labour's gone back on AV http://bit.ly/bPHnMm All three main parties are now not fit to govern IMO

RT @wdjstraw: 5 reasons why Labour should campaign on AV (as @Ed_Miliband said they would) http://bit.ly/c7psx3

Very well said. My worry is that, by not campaigning, the implicit message the general public get are we are against it and, therefore, on the same side as the Conservatives.

Also, for me, it highlights another track back from Ed Miliband et al.

If the party are serious in their pledge to engage more with the party and listen to their concerns, why has a decision on this been made without consulting members? Is there evidence to suggest that those who would be doorstepping/campaigning are against this?

This screams ‘more of the same’ to me.

RT @wdjstraw 5 reasons why Labour should campaign on AV (as @Ed_Miliband said they would) http://bit.ly/c7psx3

RT @wdjstraw: 5 reasons why Labour should campaign on AV (as @Ed_Miliband said they would) http://bit.ly/c7psx3

RT @leftfootfwd: Labour should campaign on AV http://bit.ly/bbqxjX <- Absolutely! Burnham shld be ashamed by his position

RT @wdjstraw: 5 reasons why Labour should campaign on AV (as @Ed_Miliband said they would) http://bit.ly/c7psx3

RT @wdjstraw: 5 reasons why Labour should campaign on AV (as @Ed_Miliband said they would) http://bit.ly/c7psx3

RT @wdjstraw: 5 reasons why Labour should campaign on AV (as @Ed_Miliband said they would) http://bit.ly/c7psx3

RT @wdjstraw: 5 reasons why Labour should campaign on AV (as @Ed_Miliband said they would) http://bit.ly/c7psx3

I agree with absolutely everything in this post, although I do wonder about one sentence:

‘While the party can be excused for prioritising victory in Scotland and Wales, campaigning for AV need not be a huge drain on resources or time.’

How are Labour’s finances these days?

RT @wdjstraw: 5 reasons why Labour should campaign on AV (as @Ed_Miliband said they would) http://bit.ly/c7psx3

RT @leftfootfwd: Labour should campaign on AV as @Ed_Miliband promised they would http://bit.ly/c7psx3

RT @leftfootfwd: Labour should campaign on AV http://bit.ly/bbqxjX

RT @MarkReckons RT @leftfootfwd: Labour should campaign on AV http://bit.ly/bbqxjX <- Why who would listen to the lying shits?

RT @chrisw100: RT @wdjstraw: 5 reasons why Labour should campaign on AV (as @Ed_Miliband said they would) http://bit.ly/c7psx3

RT @chrisw100: RT @wdjstraw: 5 reasons why Labour should campaign on AV (as @Ed_Miliband said they would) http://bit.ly/c7psx3

'Labour should campaign for Alternative Vote reform' says @LeftFootFwd http://bit.ly/bKpbRE – agreed fully

RT @sunny_hundal: 'Labour should campaign for Alternative Vote reform' says @LeftFootFwd http://bit.ly/bKpbRE – agreed fully

Though I will be voting #No2AV, I agree >>>> 'Labour should campaign for Alternative Vote reform' (via @leftfootfwd) http://bit.ly/bKpbRE

RT @sunny_hundal: 'Labour should campaign for Alternative Vote reform' says @LeftFootFwd http://bit.ly/bKpbRE – agreed fully

ON THE MARK, Will.
…BUT, I wouldn’t be as worried as all that about Burnham’s remarks, if I were you. I doubt that the sentence that you bolded – which was indeed a dumb thing to say – will come to represent Labour’s position on this, letalone Ed M’s. Ed invested too much in AV during the last year to be able to risk chucking it in. He would lose all credibility as a ‘pluralist’ Leader if he rolled back on supporting AV.

RT @leftfootfwd: Labour should campaign on AV as @Ed_Miliband promised they would http://bit.ly/c7psx3

RT @sunny_hundal: 'Labour should campaign for Alternative Vote reform' says @LeftFootFwd http://bit.ly/bKpbRE – agreed fully

RT @leftfootfwd: Labour should campaign on AV as @Ed_Miliband promised they would http://bit.ly/c7psx3

RT @leftfootfwd: Labour should campaign on AV as @Ed_Miliband promised they would http://bit.ly/c7psx3

RT @sunny_hundal: 'Labour should campaign for Alternative Vote reform' says @LeftFootFwd http://bit.ly/bKpbRE – agreed fully

Here’s the Adam Gray fisking.

First: Labour’s pledge was to introduce a referendum on AV. Mission accomplished. There was no pledge to campaign for AV in that referendum, nor against it.

Second: despite the Conservatives acquiesing with the Lib Dems to bring in the referendum, the policies Labour advocated at the election were decisively rejected by the electorate. It takes some exceptional arrogance to argue that we should continue arguing for ideas 71% of the voters chose not to support just six months ago.

Third: Labour’s AV pledge was never agreed by the Labour Party – it was dreamed up by out of touch Ed without reference to whether party members would support it. I believe the majority of Labour members are not AV or PR fanatics; but even if I am wrong a large minority oppose a change in the electoral system. Therefore, you are advocating that a new, inexperienced and unqualified Leader should split his party over an issue no one in the real world gives two hoots about.

Fourth: Developing that last point, why are you demanding Labour devote substantial resource to fighting over an issue that is so far down ordinary people’s pecking order that to do so will simply confirm Labour’s irrelevance to the vast majority of the electorate.

Fifth: the referendum is lost. Everyone knows it. Really want Labour tied to what is going to be another well-deserved thrashing at the polls? The answer to that is probably yes, because those in favour of AV or PR are so hysterically mypoic in their crazed desperation for this less fair electoral system that perspective flies out the window. Anyone who wishes Labour well, however, cannot possibly believe that this is in the party’s best interests.

RT @sunny_hundal: 'Labour should campaign for Alternative Vote reform' says @LeftFootFwd http://bit.ly/bKpbRE – agreed fully

RT @MarkReckons: RT @leftfootfwd: Labour should campaign on AV http://bit.ly/bbqxjX

RT @leftfootfwd: Labour should campaign on AV as @Ed_Miliband promised they would http://bit.ly/c7psx3

I agree w Will Straw not with Andy Burnham. Lab shd be able to do more than 1 thing at a time. It shd campaign for AV http://bit.ly/bbqxjX

RT @leftfootfwd: Labour should campaign on AV as @Ed_Miliband promised they would http://bit.ly/c7psx3

Well said @wdjstraw http://bit.ly/bbqxjX Labour should get real and get active on electoral reform. #YesToAV

RT @wdjstraw: 5 reasons why Labour should campaign on AV (as @Ed_Miliband said they would) http://bit.ly/c7psx3

Future hung parliaments?We have a leader elected by not the members, not our MPs,but the unions,a prominent shadow cabinet minister found guilty of a very serious charge,a party that is financially bankrupt,deserted by rich donors,and you give me AV or not.

Maybe it dropping off the political radar could be a good thing?
Less people ignorantly voting no. The people who really care about such things tend to be pro

Whilst i understand the sentiment – i agree wholeheartedly with Andy Burnham. The priority must be to win the Scottish and Welsh elections and secure a good result in the locals.
AV whilst not an ingnoble aim we need a simple message for the devolved elections which are already run on a proportional system.
Labour can support the AV yes vote but it must not divert financial or staff resources away from securing Labour governments in Edinburgh and Cardiff.
If we look back in May at a failed campaign to put Labour values in charge of the purse strings in devolved Britain then we will have failed the communities we serve.

Lets instead campaign to decouple the referendum date from the May elections.

[...] can read Will’s full post here. Share: Tweet This entry was posted in News and tagged andy burnham, av referendum, [...]

I think you are aware of my views on this Will; I am a bit scaired about the prospect of future coalitions given this one…

I like Andy Burnham, I would vote labour with him as a leader. He’s down to earth. Ed M is rubbish so far and his background – a property millionaire champagne socialist from Primrose Hill – doesn’t strike a chord with me. That and his treacherous father spending his whole life attempting to enslave through Marxism the people who had offered him sanctuary frankly disgusts me.

RT @leftfootfwd: Labour should campaign on AV as @Ed_Miliband promised they would http://bit.ly/c7psx3

RT @leftfootfwd: Labour should campaign on AV as @Ed_Miliband promised they would http://bit.ly/c7psx3

@merthyr_bill

Thanks for that little insight, did you work hard to become an uninformed moron or does it come naturally?

I can agree with all points except the third. It shows little understanding of the realities on the ground for local candidates, and I speak as one. Firstly most of us hold down full-time jobs, so have limited time for campaigning. Therefore our priority on the doorstep will be local issues, not explaining the pros and cons of a new voting system which most of our electors don’t understand. Secondly, there are the local political realities. In councils such as mine which is a minority Tory-led one, our priority is to win back traditional Labour wards taken by the Tories and Lib Dems who are currently plotting to turn the council into a Suffolk-style EasyCouncil, with the Lib Dems the treacherous villain in the piece, backing Labour ‘call-ins’ to the hilt, speaking in favour of them in the chamber, then calling adjournments just before the vote on the motion to horse-trade with the Tories. So our energies will be going into securing more power in the council.
More generally and on a national level, I would also say that, given all the talk of an informal pact, I fear AV is something the Lib Dems can’t be trusted with. They would be hijacking electoral reform – in which I strongly believe – for political gain. Were it being introduced by a majority government, I’d have no reservations about campaigning for it.

RT @leftfootfwd: Labour should campaign on AV as @Ed_Miliband promised they would http://bit.ly/c7psx3

Five clear & compelling reasons why Labour should campaign for AV by @wdjstraw http://bit.ly/bPHnMm #yesinmay

RT @takeback2010: Five clear & compelling reasons why Labour should campaign for AV by @wdjstraw http://bit.ly/bPHnMm #yesinmay

@IslingtonRed RT @takeback2010 5 clear & compelling reasons why Labour should campaign for AV by @wdjstraw http://bit.ly/bPHnMm #yes2AV

RT @leftfootfwd: Labour should campaign on AV as @Ed_Miliband promised they would http://bit.ly/c7psx3 #Yes2AV #YesinMay #Labour

@tobyperkinsmp Was still a manifesto pledge, though! @wdjstraw sums up better than I could what most of us think: http://tinyurl.com/2bou52b

RT @wdjstraw: 5 reasons why Labour should campaign on AV (as @Ed_Miliband said they would) http://bit.ly/c7psx3

“They would be hijacking electoral reform – in which I strongly believe – for political gain. Were it being introduced by a majority government, I’d have no reservations about campaigning for it.”

PMSL *OPPOSING* IT FOR POLITICAL GAIN IS OKAY, THEN?

Hypocrite.

RT @takeback2010: Five clear & compelling reasons why Labour should campaign for AV by @wdjstraw http://bit.ly/bPHnMm #yesinmay

Only 4 good reason here to support AV.

Doing so on the basis that it is to Labour advantatge isn’t one; it should be supported in principle because it does away with the rotten FPTP system.

Chris – (You make my day kiddo!)

I can see New Labour Spittles from a mile away.

Which part of merthyr_bill’s remark is not TRUE?

Play the ball please Chris…

RT @wdjstraw: 5 reasons why Labour should campaign on AV (as @Ed_Miliband said they would) http://bit.ly/c7psx3

Good post @leftfootfwd on why Labour should campaign on AV as @Ed_Miliband promised they would http://bit.ly/c7psx3

RT @takeback2010: Five clear & compelling reasons why Labour should campaign for AV by @wdjstraw http://bit.ly/bPHnMm #yesinmay

RT @GuyAitchison: Good post @leftfootfwd on why Labour should campaign on AV as @Ed_Miliband promised they would http://bit.ly/c7psx3

RT @GuyAitchison: Good post @leftfootfwd on why Labour should campaign on AV as @Ed_Miliband promised they would http://bit.ly/c7psx3

Disappointingly, it seems that Labour support for electoral reform is strictly reserved for manifestos

RT @leftfootfwd: Labour should campaign on AV as @Ed_Miliband promised they would http://bit.ly/c7psx3

RT @leftfootfwd: Labour should campaign on AV as @Ed_Miliband promised they would http://bit.ly/c7psx3

2 excellent blogs on why Labour should campaign for AV next May: @wdjstraw http://tinyurl.com/2bou52b & @nextleft http://tinyurl.com/36qqb94

RT @leftfootfwd: Labour should campaign on AV as @Ed_Miliband promised they would http://bit.ly/c7psx3

RT @leftfootfwd: Labour should campaign on AV as @Ed_Miliband promised they would http://bit.ly/c7psx3

RT @leftfootfwd: Labour should campaign on AV as @Ed_Miliband promised they would http://bit.ly/c7psx3

Firstly, isn’t the gerrymandering that we all complained about still in the proposed Bill? Second, it’s not the campaigners who can’t fart and chew gum at the same time, when it comes to AV it’s the electorate. I have to agree with Burnham on this, winning regions is far more important.

Perhaps focus should be more upon how the Tories are making a progressive proposal impossible to support by bundling it with gerrymandered boundaries and putting it on the same day as regional elections?

“Perhaps focus should be more upon how the Tories are making a progressive proposal impossible to support by bundling it with gerrymandered boundaries and putting it on the same day as regional elections?”

The referendum will – assuming the Lords don’t significantly change the Bill – be on “new boundaries with FPTP” versus “new boundaries with AV”. It may be difficult for Labour members of the Commons and Lords to support the Bill, but once it has passed the boundary changes are no reason not to support a pro-AV vote in the referendum.

If the boundary changes are unfair then of course there’s good reason not to support them!

Will – I have to say that of all the reasons you give in favour of AV your last one is bang on the money.

I see Cameron more left wing than Clegg and this coalition will simply not collapse regardless of the results of any AV referendum.

The Tories are closer to the Lib Dems than Labour ever were and before all you Labour zombies start stirring in the woods, just remember ID Cards, control orders and the hundred and one other things Labour support involving the state crushing the rights of the individual.

I disagree with Cameron on the AV matter – he’s wrong and since Labour have been comprehensively shown to be advocating policies that are unfair, as FPTP clearly is, it would do them good to try to get back on the side of the masses rather than their usual support for multi millionaires and big business.

It is time for Labour to stop the silly excuses and support AV wholeheartedly and join the real world before it’s too late…

RT @leicesterliz: 2 excellent blogs on why Labour should campaign for AV next May: @wdjstraw http://tinyurl.com/2bou52b & @nextleft http …

“*OPPOSING* IT FOR POLITICAL GAIN IS OKAY, THEN?”

13eastie, read carefully and you’ll notice that nowhere did I say I would be opposing it, just simply not campaigning for it. Where I put my cross in the privacy of the ballot booth is a matter apart.

RT @leicesterliz: 2 excellent blogs on why Labour should campaign for AV next May: @wdjstraw http://tinyurl.com/2bou52b & @nextleft http …

RT @leftfootfwd: Labour should campaign on AV as @Ed_Miliband promised they would http://bit.ly/c7psx3

RT @takeback2010 Five clear & compelling reasons why Labour should campaign for AV by @wdjstraw http://bit.ly/bPHnMm #yesinmay

RT @leicesterliz: 2 excellent blogs on why Labour should campaign for AV next May: @wdjstraw http://tinyurl.com/2bou52b & @nextleft http …

“If the boundary changes are unfair then of course there’s good reason not to support them!”

Well, yes, obviously. But the result of the referendum will have no effect whatsoever on the boundary changes. You won’t oppose the boundary changes by voting for FPTP in the referendum, and neither is a vote for AV in the referendum support for the boundary changes.

Certainly by tying the boundary changes to the referendum in the legislation it’s made it very difficult for opposition MPs and Lords to support the principle of having a referendum while not also voting for boundary changes. But once the Bill passes that is irrelevant. The boundary changes will happen, regardless of the result of the referendum, and the referendum’s results will take effect regardless of the decisions on the boundaries. At that point, the two things become independent of each other, and Labour’s understandable dislike of the boundary changes should not affect its willingness to campaign for AV in the referendum.

Why the Labour party should support an upgrade to The Alternative Vote – http://bit.ly/byMTyF #YesToAV

RT @wdjstraw: 5 reasons why Labour should campaign on AV (as @Ed_Miliband said they would) http://bit.ly/c7psx3

RT @wdjstraw: 5 reasons why Labour should campaign on AV (as @Ed_Miliband said they would) http://bit.ly/c7psx3

RT @wdjstraw: 5 reasons why Labour should campaign on AV (as @Ed_Miliband said they would) http://bit.ly/c7psx3

RT @wdjstraw: 5 reasons why Labour should campaign on AV (as @Ed_Miliband said they would) http://bit.ly/c7psx3

@mousey the tory press officer

Yawn, is bill one of your sock puppets?

“Which part of merthyr_bill’s remark is not TRUE?”

All of it.

“The Tories are closer to the Lib Dems than Labour ever were”

I’d agree with you that the orange bookers/proto-tory wing of the liberals is closer to the tories. I’m surprised by the total capitulation of the social liberal wing but the that was one of the reasons the Labour party was founded and became the party of ordinary working people. Keir Hardie rightly believed that given a choice between capital and labour the liberals would always choose capital.

“It is time for Labour to stop the silly excuses and support AV wholeheartedly and join the real world before it’s too late…”

The only way a ref could have been won was to build an alliance between labour, liberal and anti-tory voters. The Labourites and anti-tories aren’t going to vote for AV if they think the liberals will enter into a 2nd pref pact with the tories.

Chris – Thanks sweetheart… I almost hate to use EVIDENCE to prove you are wrong. Yet again. Ok then.

merthyr_bill said: “Ed M is rubbish so far and his background – a property millionaire champagne socialist from Primrose Hill – doesn’t strike a chord with me. That and his treacherous father spending his whole life attempting to enslave through Marxism the people who had offered him sanctuary frankly disgusts me”

1. Ed Miliband is rubbish so far. That’s Bill’s opinion so that’s true.
2. Property property millionaire champagne socialist is also true.
3. Primrose Hill is true.
4. His Marxist (Jewish I don’t care about) father was given sanctuary by us.
5. He preached Marxism in the UK and considered Tony Benn too right wing at one point.

So once again you have smeared and ranted and lied about someone in a public forum and the subject of Ed Miliband you might want to check how he actually became a property millionaire and his tax status. Who owns the house he lives in Chris?

As for your last paragraph you are living on a different planet. Have you not realised Labour lost the election Chris?

For the reasons I gave previously: The Tories are closer to the Lib Dems than Labour ever were and before all you Labour zombies start stirring in the woods, just remember ID Cards, control orders and the hundred and one other things Labour support involving the state crushing the rights of the individual.

I won’t call you a zombie Chris since it appears that New Labour Lick Spittles like yourself are alive and well but unlike you I am too polite to be rude in a public forum….

(Have you never wondered why you alone make the remarks you do Chris?)

hahahahahahahahahahahaha

http://www.leftfootforward.org/2010/11/labour-should-campaign-on-av/

RT @wdjstraw: 5 reasons why Labour should campaign on AV (as @Ed_Miliband said they would) http://bit.ly/c7psx3

OK, boys, calm down ,the task is to win the next election.I put £50 on Andy Burnham, purely because I thought the party would vote against everybody associated with GB.I had not worked out that the leadership was in the gift of the public sector unions, whose own elections have been copied by Burma. When we have lost an election or two,I think Merthyr Bill will seem to have been right all along.

William – (The above is an ongoing theme)

I also agree with merthyr_bill but think that Miliband, irrespective of how he got the leadership, is doing ok considering.

The fact is he really has nothing to do for 5 years. I think that people hoping the coalition will fall apart are bonkers – the only tribalists exist in the Labour Party.

I don’t think anyone seriously thinks Labour can win the next election anyway – too much baggage but what I do find amazing is that the very policies that the electorate rejected are still being advanced here on LFF.

Finally elections in Burma couldn’t be as corrupt as the public sector unions surely?

RT @wdjstraw: 5 reasons why Labour should campaign on AV (as @Ed_Miliband said they would) http://bit.ly/c7psx3

Ed M is keeping quiet because every time he does something he ends up on the wrong side of the argument/sanity.

He wants multi-millionaires to get child benefit. Him and his friends wailed with the unfairness of capping housing benefit at 21k per year. They gnashed their teeth when middle class students had to pay for their own education rather than poncing off the working class. When it was considered that the long term unemployed may benefit from 30 hours of work, 4 weeks a year they uncontrollably wept at the unfairness of making people get out of bed before lunch. And when the government addresses the question of why 1 in 10 of working age people is too disabled to work (30% here in Merthyr) I assume the opposition will have a seizure at the idea of cancer patients and those in comas being forced into foundries or down the mines.

They are either opposing for its own sake or they are mad.

And EdM looks and sounds like a Mongo.

RT @wdjstraw: 5 reasons why Labour should campaign on AV (as @Ed_Miliband said they would) http://bit.ly/c7psx3

Anon E Mouse.Phil Woolas.A Scottish MP that commited suicide.A democracy requires an opposition whose integrity is above board,whose opposition is reasoned ,not tribal,and is not obsessed by class, which is all I get on Labour uncut.Perhaps E Miliband will have a chat with Kinnock about laying the foundations for a future victory,as Tony Blair is too busy.

Should be pretty easy for Labour to win the next election. After all, the Coalition are getting blamed for the deficit/cuts and Labour could lose by 5% and still have more seats (Ashcroft’s millions aside) due to the bias that won’t be corrected by the boundary changes.

Following in Blair’s footsteps, Labour are taking a short-termist selfish view where grabbing power is the only thing that matters. Cameron, I hate to say it, nailed Ed with “Mili-bandwagon.”

Winston Churchill described AV most accurately as ‘the most worthless votes for the most worthless candidates’. Here in my constituency AV would literally see a fine Labour candidate ousted in favour of a LibDem from the Phil Woolas school of electoral integrity, via the second or even third preference votes of BNP and UKIP voters. I accept in the name of democracy that a foul, neo-Nazi party like BNP can legally stand and that people can vote for it. But Will Straw and AV supporters are now advising me that we should go further – indeed that Labour should support a new system whereby the ignorant, racist morons who support BNP are awarded a second or even third vote (to be exercised BEFORE Labour, Tory or Libdem second or third preferences by the way) under which they will put out a Labour candidate who has polled the highest number of (1st preference) votes ! My dear Father didn’t lead a tank squadron across Germany in 1944-5 to facilitate that, Will. For once the Tories are absolutely right on this. Vote against AV and save British decency and democracy! Gordon Brown should never have supported AV. Like Iraq, tuition fees, economic liberalism, triangulation, pandering to bankers,retailers and Murdoch, crypto-racism, excessive spending on NHS luxury programmes, overpaying doctors and dentists, wasting money on overseas military and corrupt UN programmes, bashing the unions and unemployed and failing to build council houses (phew, long list, sorry), the quicker we dump AV and other poisonous elements of the Blair/Brown legacy, the faster we will have a Labour Government again. By FPTP with a majority of 100+ if Ed listens to Andy Burnham on this one!

@mousey the tory press officer

Yet again mousey you turn every thread into a meaningless, rabid anti-Labour rant.

“I almost hate to use EVIDENCE to prove you are wrong.”

It is a real stumbling block in your treatment that we can’t get past your stubborn belief that just because you imagine something necessarily makes it true in reality.

“So once again you have smeared and ranted and lied about someone in a public forum and the subject of Ed Miliband you might want to check how he actually became a property millionaire and his tax status.”

LOL, your accusing be of smearing your sock puppet then you smear Ed by questioning his wealth and tax status.

“Who owns the house he lives in Chris?”

His wife, she has the money as she’s worked hard to become a highly paid barrister, isn’t that what you tories are all for?

“As for your last paragraph you are living on a different planet. Have you not realised Labour lost the election Chris?”

Yawn, how do you think the ref can be won? Maybe your focus group work will throw up the answer, how is your mum?

“For the reasons I gave previously: The Tories are closer to the Lib Dems than Labour ever were”

I agreed with you on that, the orange bookers are proto-tories and the social libs seem to have disappeared. But how will the ref be won? The core lib voters, i.e. the 10% still supporting them aren’t enough to win the ref.

“New Labour Lick Spittles like yourself are alive and well but unlike you I am too polite to be rude in a public forum….”

Yawn. Yet again your displaying the inconsistency that characterises your every argument.

“(Have you never wondered why you alone make the remarks you do Chris?)”

Because hardly anybody else comments except your sock puppets. Its unfortunate that this actually rather good blog is inhabited mostly by a tory troll and his sock puppets.

RT @wdjstraw: 5 reasons why Labour should campaign on AV (as @Ed_Miliband said they would) http://bit.ly/c7psx3

Chris – Public forum. People watching. You telling lies and smearing people. Sound familiar? You said none of the following was true so let’s try again:

1. Ed Miliband is rubbish so far.
2. Property property millionaire champagne socialist is also true.
3. Primrose Hill is true.
4. His Marxist (Jewish I don’t care about) father was given sanctuary by us.
5. He preached Marxism in the UK and considered Tony Benn too right wing at one point.

Case closed (again).

If I can just add that Miliband senior spent his life leaching off the public purse. And his real name was Adolphe. That should have set alarm bells ringing for us!

Disgusting.

Ralph Miliband was a Jewish refugee who would probably have died in Auschwitz if he hadn’t escaped to Britain.

He spent his entire life here as a teacher in universities that employed people on their merits and was no more a ‘leach’ (people who make racist slurs really should at least learn to spell their own language) than any schoolteacher or binman or soldier or policeman who worked for the state.

What depresses me most about the internet is that it liberates every hate-filled moron on the planet to parade their stupidity.

Wouldn’t you be happier commenting at the Daily Mail site?

@mouse the tory press officer

“Public forum. People watching. You telling lies and smearing people.”

Yawn, you never answered when I discovered you quoting an entire paragraph from a tory press release.

“You said none of the following was true so let’s try again:”

Boring, its entirely subjective, in your crazy drug addled mind anything you dream up is gospel.

“1. Ed Miliband is rubbish so far.”

How do you quantify that? At PMQs he has bested Cameron 3/4.

“2. Property property millionaire champagne socialist is also true.”

No he isn’t, his wife bought the house according to the newspapers. He isn’t even on the deeds.

“3. Primrose Hill is true.”

No its Kentish Town actually.

“4. His Marxist (Jewish I don’t care about) father was given sanctuary by us.”

So?

“5. He preached Marxism in the UK and considered Tony Benn too right wing at one point.”

Your sock puppets actual phase was “enslave”, it depends on your concept of slavery. Is working 40 hours a week just to receive the unemployment benefits your paid your stamp to get slavery? Some loony rightwing morons, like yourself, would argue having to pay the 50p tax band is slavery.

“Case closed (again).”

LOL, more sedatives for you tonight, I’ll tell the night nurse.

@mousey’s sock puppet

“If I can just add that Miliband senior spent his life leaching off the public purse. And his real name was Adolphe. That should have set alarm bells ringing for us!”

Yawn, what a pathetic little stream of shit you’ve puked up. As Roger suggested go join the circle wank at the Daily Fail.

Getting back to the issue in hand rather than right wing trolling…

I think Ed Miliband should do a “Wilson ’75″ and allow Labour MPs, party members and Shadow Ministers who support AV to campaign openly for it, while those who are against can campaign against it. Personally I will vote for AV because the Tories are against it. But I’m not an enthusiastic advocate – it’s not that much better than FTTP really. I’d prefer to see STV or AV Plus – real proportional representation.

I will be voting no ,as i want to give the coalition as much pain as i can That may be narrow minded but i just hate Nick and Danny so much, and if they won they would ram it down our throats
ANDY

Chris – Public forum. People watching. You telling lies and smearing people. Sound familiar?

I can only conclude that you are either winding people up or you are thick.

To not know about the Primrose Hill millionaire but never done a days work Ed Miliband and his property and tax status I simply don’t believe.

It is impossible to argue coherently with someone, who despite advice from his parents and teachers continues to behave in an obsessional and deluded manner…

RT @leftfootfwd: Labour should campaign on AV http://bit.ly/bbqxjX