Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory “deceit” on debt

RT @leftfootfwd: Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory "deceit" on debt http://bit.ly/gmo0Z8

RT @leftfootfwd: Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory "deceit" on debt http://bit.ly/gmo0Z8

RT @leftfootfwd: Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory "deceit" on debt http://bit.ly/gmo0Z8

RT @leftfootfwd: Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory "deceit" on debt http://bit.ly/gmo0Z8

RT @leftfootfwd: Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory "deceit" on debt http://bit.ly/gmo0Z8

RT @leftfootfwd: Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory "deceit" on debt http://bit.ly/gmo0Z8

RT @leftfootfwd: Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory "deceit" on debt http://bit.ly/gmo0Z8

RT @leftfootfwd: Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory "deceit" on debt http://bit.ly/gmo0Z8

RT @leftfootfwd: Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory "deceit" on debt http://bit.ly/gmo0Z8

RT @leftfootfwd: Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory "deceit" on debt http://bit.ly/gmo0Z8

RT @leftfootfwd Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory "deceit" on debt http://bit.ly/gmo0Z8

RT @leftfootfwd: Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory "deceit" on debt http://bit.ly/gmo0Z8

RT @leftfootfwd: Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory "deceit" on debt http://bit.ly/gmo0Z8 >> And about time too!

RT @leftfootfwd: Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory "deceit" on debt http://bit.ly/gmo0Z8

RT @leftfootfwd: Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory "deceit" on debt http://bit.ly/gmo0Z8

RT@leftfootfwd: Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory "deceit" on debt http://bit.ly/gmo0Z8”

RT @leftfootfwd: Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory "deceit" on debt http://bit.ly/gmo0Z8

RT @leftfootfwd: Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory "deceit" on debt http://bit.ly/fOm5pG

YOU ARE IN DENIAL

Spending should have been below revenue in 2004 onwards as we were in a (politician encouraged) boom. Of course stabalisers result in extra spending and rightly so and of course revenue falls in a recession and of course that will lead to a deficit. But prior to that there should be a surplus.

If that is not the case why are Labour committed to removing the structureal defist by 2016/17 (“probably”) Necitateing significantly larger tax rises than they have so far talked about.

Corporations can choose where they pay much of their corporation tax so if you want less of it put it up, if you want more of it cut it. That is not ideology but reality.

Could you point me to the cut in NI I must have missed it I thought it was going up.

RT @leftfootfwd Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory "deceit" on debt http://bit.ly/gmo0Z8 <<economic fightback begins!

RT @HouseofTwits: RT @leftfootfwd Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory "deceit" on debt http://bit.ly/gmo0Z8

RT @PeterWatt123: RT @leftfootfwd Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory "deceit" on debt http://bit.ly/gmo0Z8 <<economic fightba …

RT @leftfootfwd: Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory "deceit" on debt http://bit.ly/gmo0Z8

RT @leftfootfwd: Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory "deceit" on debt http://bit.ly/gmo0Z8

Love it how the big lefties are now claiming that chronic over spending and binge borrowing was not their fault http://bit.ly/gmo0Z8

Of course it was the banks, we must remind ordinary working people all the time by pointing out the bonuses these greedy plutocrats still enjoy despite destroying our economy and our ecology.

Good article by Ed but it has taken him and his team a very long time to address this key point.

He needs to bang this particular drum a lot louder.

Call for a Commission of Inquiry into the causes of the bust and bailout. How can we make sure it never happens again if we do not understand what went wrong. Current Banking Commission is fundamentally flawed. Is not taking evidence in public, has no power to compel production of documents, no pwer to take evidence on oath.

The public HATE the bankers. They hated Brown as well but they got the chance to give him a good kicking and see Labour humbled and apologetic.
The bakers have never been humbled and have never apologised.

Ed Miliband exposes government 'deceit' over deficit in today's Times http://bit.ly/i8ce7e

RT @leftfootfwd: Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory "deceit" on debt http://bit.ly/gmo0Z8

What caused the UK deficit? Not Labour spending: RT @leftfootfwd: Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory "deceit" on http://bit.ly/gmo0Z8

If you do have to use a graph, label the axis and put a title on it.

GCSE maths fail.

Will – Situations are fluid and even if the Tories did agree with Labour at some point in the past surely people are entitled to change their position as circumstances change.

Ed Miliband has written an article where he himself acknowledges 20% of the corporation tax has gone certainly with a fair proportion from the banks.

Well the bankers got rich through Labour deregulation and rewarded more by Labour than any other government in history with knighthoods and the like whilst Miliband was in the treasury himself.

And now he complains without any offer of a solution from Labour. Charming.

And on my first point it gives me an excuse to link to one of my favourite pieces of you Youtube footage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWLN7rIby9s

(Still makes the hairs on my neck bristle in excitement and when I met him he was a most pleasant individual – completely at odds with his media profile)

And his point about the “rigid dogma” is EXACTLY what you want Cameron to do. It’s why Miliband and the left show that they really don’t get it. Everytime he mentions the debt it reminds people who got us into the mess.

Instead of scaremongering Labour should say “We think it could be done this way or that” and give reasons why instead of this doom merchant stuff.

Before the election I wanted Labour to be positive and they weren’t and this article shows that they haven’t changed. You will not scare the public into voting Labour – the narrative is set. It’s too late to change it.

The left needs to move on Will – don’t you be fooled…

(Thought you were off somewhere else anyway fella. And what’s Shamik up to? Not seen a lot of posts from him lately so I presume he’s up all night watching the cricket)

Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory “deceit” on debt http://bit.ly/fbw6o1

RT @leftfootfwd: Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory "deceit" on debt http://bit.ly/gmo0Z8

RT @leftfootfwd: Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory "deceit" on debt http://bit.ly/gmo0Z8

RT @leftfootfwd: Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory "deceit" on debt http://bit.ly/fOm5pG

RT @leftfootfwd: Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory "deceit" on debt http://bit.ly/gmo0Z8

Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory "deceit" on debt: http://bit.ly/gmo0Z8 explains @wdjstraw on @leftfootfwd

RT @shamikdas: Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory "deceit" on debt: http://bit.ly/gmo0Z8 explains @wdjstraw on @leftfootfwd

Ed Miliband right to expose Tory “deceit” on debt – shame took so bloody long to say it/by @wdjstraw http://bit.ly/fer7bq /cc @feedly

This is a pathetic piece by a PPE graduate who worked in the Treasury.Brown’s excessive spending is neatly posted on Guido Fawkes. And that is ignoring the Enron type accounting of PFI and public sector pensions.The markets had spotted it, and belatedly the Coalition,thank goodness.When will Labour come up with a politician of the calibre of Roy Jenkins?

Ah, as a I thought the graph shows % GDP.

So, as Labour had to follow the Conservative spending plans up to 2000, you can see spending as a line under revenues. A surplus thanks to Ken Clarke’s excellent stewardship of the economy and Labour’s craven attempt at building up some economic credibility.

Then as Brown let rip (bar a small matter of £40bn for the 3G licenses), you see spending outstrip revenues during the long asset boom of the mid-2000s.

Mentioning ‘automatic stabilisers’ is then an opt-in to Keynesian economics which begs the question.

WHERE WAS THE SURPLUS TO PAY FOR THEM?

Also, if you dig deeper, Labour were adding on average 1.2% GDP onto the national debt from 2003 onwards propelling way above what was inherited in 1997.

As the ‘once-in-a-hundred’ years calamity happens, the entire Western world required deficit financing bar only Germany, Australia and Canada. They had wisely built up surpluses. The UK is now is a beggar-thy-neighbour race to the bottom to preserve liquidity and is forced into austerity to maintain credibility with the world’s financiers.

What was Brown advice to Germany in 2006? How they should adopt the Anglo-Saxon model?

Labour were beyond inept and if they think they can send out Brown’s milk monitor to defend their record, you must be seriously deluded.

Total spending had clearly been rising rapidly from 1999 as your own graph shows.

The debt of approx £70billion at the start of the recession was not ‘modest’.

Even if for capital expenditure, debt is still debt and incurs interest (in effect) for ever.

Labout cannot deliver sound money and cannot take difficult decisions (eg, saying no to more debt).

Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory "deceit" on debt | Left Foot Forward – http://bit.ly/eTz7fz

When are people going to stop blaming the bankers?

It’s real simple:

1) The banks actions caused a recession
2) Labour managed the economy into a position where it couldn’t withstand a recession without incurring massive deficits

Was Labour’s failure to manage public spending in the economy becuase the Treasury believed Brown’s fatuous claim to have eliminated “boom and bust”?

You accuse the Conservatives both of supporting Labour’s high spending plans and of having an ideological desire to cut spending and shrink the state. Which is it? Either they supported high spending or they are consumed by a desire to cut spending? It cannot be both!

You say Labour was not responsible for the deficit, and you blame the recession, but you ignore the £100 billion structural deficit. If you’re having trouble with the terms I will explain. Structural means not caused by the recession. That’s £100 billion that was not caused by automatic stabilisers and £100 billion a year that needs to be addressed if we are to avoid a debt crisis.

The IFS, Melvyn King and Tony Blair all admit that Labour got it wrong on this section of economic policy. http://conservativehome.blogs.com/leftwatch/2011/01/ed-miliband-is-still-in-denial-about-labours-spending-binge.html

Until Labour is also willing to admit they got it wrong they will be unable to move on. It’s not the end of the world, people do get things wrong. It does not mean they can’t be trusted ever again. But first there must be honesty. Labour made a serious mistake.

RT @leftfootfwd Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory "deceit" on debt http://bit.ly/gmo0Z8

@ Mike Thomas

What was George Osborne’s advice to the UK, in 2006?

Can you explain to me what happen to the North Sea Oil Revenues of £300 Billion that where generated between 1979-1997? because if you consult the history books, Labour came to power inheriting a National Debt of £400 Billion.

When people describe Labour inheriting a ” Rolls Royce Economy ” they tend to gloss over some pretty awful stats.

Will

Best of luck with your attempt to talk sense to a gaggle of Tory astroturfers and Mr Mouse. Main point is that AD had a plan to get us out of this global economic crisis but Sniffy and all the other ConDem dog boilers just see it as an opportunity to roll back the state to some sort of Edwardian idyll.

The point needs to be made about the quality of the figures the Treasury has produced over the past 18 months and how the issue of the structural deficit has been over stated, doubley so since the OBR or as they are colloquially known the “three brothers grimm” have got involved.

Their 8.8% structural and 2.3% cyclical split of the 2009/10 deficit is probably the most shamelessly political stat put out by officials since the Treasury put a bend on its deficit forecasts that Beckham would be proud of.

Back to the cyclical deficit number, this is a complete sham cooked up to allow Sniffy to “fire up the chainsaw for a lot of slash and burn”. It is based on a 4% output gap, that is what we can produce and what we are producing.

Does the UK look like a country that is only missing 4% of its possible GDP?

Even the previous Treasury figure of 6% looked suspect, again does the UK look like a country that is producing 6% less than it can?

However this change to the output gap from 6% to 4% allowed the OBR to reduce the cyclical portion of the deficit from 3.3% to 2.3% meaning that the structural deficit couldbe increased to 8.8%. Very handy for the dog boiler now in charge of the country’s economy.

The main thing to point out is that an 11% deficit is not Treasury breaker it is made out to be. We have a private sector surplus of 10% to go with it so we can fund our own debt from within. Add in the heavy public sector investment included in the figure and a realistic view of the output gap like 8% and the structural deficit is looking at 4%’ish and consequently not the bogeyman figure it is often portrayed in the media.

Finally compare and cotrast the 1991 recession, a pimple in the post war economic history of the UK, in some places it was never noticed due to the prevailing poor economic conditions and the 2008 Credit Crunch, the biggest global financial shock in 135 years.

1991 = 2.4% drop in GDP / 8.7% deficit including limited public sector investment.
2008 = 6.4% drop in GDP / 11.1% deficit including significant public sector investment.
Ask now who was running the country properly when the global economic events turned sour?

Consequently I hope that Milli-E goes long and loud on the shambles the ConDems are making of the recovery.

Finally the double dip is out there, the second half of 2011 is looking shaky if it gets caught up with the global third wave of the crisis.

This is sophistry with statistics; the fact is that Brown borrowed tens of billions of pounds more every year than he got back in tax, since 2001/2, and this was extra debt that had to be paid for – i.e. the interest on the growing loan – and it doesn’t matter what the ratio was to GDP, it was hundreds of billions of real pounds extra borrowed over the space of just a few years. It’s like me saying that racking up ever more debt on my credit card doesn’t matter because my house is worth more; a lot of people did that and we know where they are now – in the bankruptcy courts. The left, and Ed Miliband, is in complete denial. If Labour had got back in it would be the IMF who snapped them out of this – just like the last time.

Thanks for the comments. I won’t respond to all the points but instead point to this link from Channel 4 News’ Fact Check which exonerates our blog and questions the Tories’ own figures today.

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/whos-deceiving-who-on-the-deficit/5465

The only thing I’ll add is that Labour bringing down debt from 1997 to 2007 meant that it had the wiggle room for the recession. That’s been one of the reasons for the cheap cost of borrowing by historic standards.

Mike Thomas – I disagree entirely with your analysis but thanks for pointing out the lack of a scale earlier. My bad.

RT @leftfootfwd: Ed Miliband is right to expose the Tory "deceit" on debt http://bit.ly/fOm5pG

Great take down of Tory debt "deceit" by @wdjstraw on @leftfootfwd http://bit.ly/fOm5pG

Will,

C4 Fact Check does not exhonerate you at all. It’s already give LabourList a slapping down for claiming it does.

Where exactly in my analysis have I been incorrect, please do tell me?

A political party cannot pick and choose economic theorem to suit its political ends. A Leader of Opposition with a substantial economic responsibility cannot pick and choose his economic argument.

The facts are clear, Labour spent and spent and was wholly irresponsible to allow the economy to drown in cash and Labour displayed all the fiscal rectitude of a Lotto winner in Las Vegas.

Take some responsibility.

Fat Bloke On Tour – Nice to see you back fella…

Just want to point out that the Tories were arguing that the banks shouldn’t be regulated whatsoever in 2007 and it was only in 2008 that they suddenly changed song and started screaming “blame labour” (as Will said). To be fair on them, it worked. People believed them and they are now in government. Kinda says something sad about British politics.

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@Felipewh Try this http://bit.ly/h1VmS3 or http://bit.ly/fu0t50

@xkatetaylorx Have a read of this: http://tinyurl.com/39rpfjt

@Mike Thomas:
Actually C4 Fact Check does, broadly speaking, fit in with the basic argument that LFF is putting forward. The above graph is pointing out that tax revenues dipped vastly during and immediately following the banking crisis. As C4 Fact Check concludes, “the drop in tax receipts triggered by the economic crisis is what’s behind the bulk of the £149bn deficit”. This is not to say that Labour did not spend foolishly prior to the banking crisis; they certainly did in several areas, not least in defence. But it’s hardly true that overspending ’caused’ the deficit, whatever the Conservatives might argue. In short, if LFF are claiming that a massive drop in tax revenues due to the banking crisis was a major factor in the spawning of a vast deficit- and so are C4 Fact Check- then they’re not really wrong are they?

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