Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled

RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled: http://bit.ly/ehtIkb says @suey2y

RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled: http://bit.ly/ehtIkb says @suey2y

RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled: http://bit.ly/ehtIkb says @suey2y

RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled: http://bit.ly/ehtIkb says @suey2y

RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled: http://bit.ly/ehtIkb says @suey2y

@BendyGirl @BrokenOfBritain @CarerWatch Article now up on LFF http://bit.ly/ehtIkb Do please leave comments adding more facts #spoonie

RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled: http://bit.ly/ehtIkb says @suey2y

RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled: http://bit.ly/ehtIkb says @suey2y

RT @FalseEcon: RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled: http://bit.ly/ehtIkb says @suey2y

RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled http://bit.ly/hy8tWV

RT @suey2y: RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled http://bit.ly/hy8tWV

RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled: http://bit.ly/ehtIkb says @suey2y

RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled http://bit.ly/hy8tWV

RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled http://bit.ly/hy8tWV

RT @FalseEcon RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled: http://bit.ly/ehtIkb says @suey2y

RT @FalseEcon: RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled: http://bit.ly/ehtIkb says @suey2y

RT @FalseEcon: RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled: http://bit.ly/ehtIkb says @suey2y

RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled http://bit.ly/hy8tWV

RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled: http://bit.ly/ehtIkb says @suey2y

RT @suey2y: CALLING ALL #SPOONIE S Article on @leftfootfwd http://bit.ly/ehtIkb countering press and DWP DLA/ESA nonsense, please add fa …

RT @suey2y: CALLING ALL #SPOONIE S Article on @leftfootfwd http://bit.ly/ehtIkb countering press and DWP DLA/ESA nonsense, please add fa …

RT @FalseEcon: RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled: http://bit.ly/ehtIkb says @suey2y

RT @FalseEcon: RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled: http://bit.ly/ehtIkb says @suey2y

The problem with this article, ignoring the childish tabloid style headline, is that the author doesn’t seem to want to help people to get back into work. Some people have been on IB for over ten years without being reassessed which is nothing short of crazy.

I disliked this policy when the Tories used it to massage the unemployment figures.

I disliked it when my party, Labour, continued it using migrant workers to fill the vacancies.

I dislike it now especially when the author of this article doesn’t seem to realise the benefits of work and only appears to want to continue some state control over peoples lives like some great socialist experiment.

People need to work to give their lives meaning. Obviously if they are truly disabled they should be helped but to suggest the state should not make checks on people to ensure they are still in the same position when handing out money is the most uncaring thing I have heard for years.

Labour used to be the party of aspiration and people should aspire to be the best they can and if that means helping to get them off benefits and into work what is wrong with that?

RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled: http://bit.ly/ehtIkb says @suey2y

RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled: http://bit.ly/ehtIkb says @suey2y

RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled: http://bit.ly/ehtIkb says @suey2y

RT @suey2y: CALLING ALL #SPOONIE S Article on @leftfootfwd http://bit.ly/ehtIkb countering press and DWP DLA/ESA nonsense, please add fa …

RT @suey2y: RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled http://bit.ly/hy8tWV

So someone Anonymous knows exactly what needs to be done re : sickness and disability benefits? Knows more than someone like me who’s been seriously unwell for 27 years?

1st, people HAVE been reassessed on IB – you’re simply wrong. At LEAST every 3 years, but more commonly every year.

“People need to work to give their lives meaning” What absolute claptrap. My life has great meaning and I do many things Mr Cameron would like to see under his Big Society remit. But no-one will employ me you see – I’m just too sick. What then?

As for the headline, I didn’t write it.

If you actually knew anything about hte figures, this change would be fine if it actually DID help people back to work, but it doesn’t. Just 8% are found lasting employment – the rest are left on the scrap heap.

One can oppose the worst elements of DLA or ESA reform without being against it all, but if there are problems and the government or opposition don’t want to address them, then people will suffer and people will die. If that’s what they WANT, then they should say so, but I imagine it would not win many votes.

RT @DocHackenbush: RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled: http://bit.ly/ehtIkb says @suey2y

Ms Mouse: Childish tabloid headline? I’m sorry I don’t quite see that. As far as I am concerned the headline on this very well written story gives a very accurate précis of the piece.

I have never heard of anyone on incapacity benefit who is not regularly re-assessed (usually every two years) are you sure you are not mixing IB up with DLA in just the sort of tabloid way that the…err.. tabloids are in this piece itself?

As for the DWP and the great success that the pilot schemes have supposed to have been. Were we not promised that two thirds or three quarters of people on IB (I can’t remember which) would be helped back into work when all this was trotted out initially (by the Labour Government)? If so then a niggardly one third is a somewhat dumbed-down success is it not? I am also assuming that all the appeals have not run their course, so that success may be even more modest at the end of the day. Another example of a government initiative that must succeed at all costs no matter what the inconvenient facts actually are.

Anon E Mouse:

Can you give examples of people on IB who have not been assessed for 10 years? The rules state that they are, in general terms, reassessed every 2 years. There are some exceptions to that, including those who have incurable or terminal illness. In some cases people who have won Tribunal cases against the DWP may also be unassessed for longer. This is to save money on pointless reassessments.

You may too, be mixing Incapacity Benefit with Disability Living Allowance?

I’ve worked on courses helping people back into work after a period of illness, and these were, a few years ago, a great success. It is more difficult now. With few employers recruiting and far more recently redundant, job-ready, experienced people on the job market, the likelihood of getting employment for the sick, or recently recovered, is far more difficult.

If your motivation is to help them to fulfil their aspirations (if they have any) and make the most of their lives, it is probably better to wait until there are genuinely some jobs (not the ones IDS boasts: part time cleaner, mother’s help, gardener 2 hours a week for OAP, etc). It’s very demotiviating to be taken off the higher rate payments and send out to look for jobs that aren’t there.

If on the other hand your only desire is to save money, it’s a great idea (although there are better).

RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled http://bit.ly/hy8tWV

RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled: http://bit.ly/ehtIkb says @suey2y

Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled | Left Foot Forward http://fb.me/L2GI8TjN

RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled: http://bit.ly/ehtIkb says @suey2y

RT @BendyGirl: RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled http://bit.ly/hy8tWV

Sue Marsh – When did you personalise your article to just yourself?

1. Are you saying that EVERY single claimant of Incapacity Benefit in this country has been assessed at least every three years?

2. If you didn’t write the headline (which does your case no favours) who did?

3. When did I say you personally were well or unwell? You posted the article not me.

4. Since I clearly stated “Obviously if they are truly disabled they should be helped” then what is the problem?

You also say that 8% find lasting employment. Good.

With the hoo hah currently going on about 4% / year cuts in public services where you’d think the world was going to end then 8% is excellent. It is after all 8 people in a hundred.

I don’t know what the government want or do not want but if you seriously believe that any political party in this country actually want members of the electorate to suffer and die in 2011 then I would suggest that you are completely misguided Sue…

RT @BendyGirl: RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled http://bit.ly/hy8tWV

RT @BrokenOfBritain: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled | Left Foot Forward http://fb.me/L2GI8TjN

RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled: http://bit.ly/ehtIkb says @suey2y yep – I work so am

RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled: http://bit.ly/ehtIkb says @suey2y

RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled: http://bit.ly/ehtIkb says @suey2y my job but family read

RT @BrokenOfBritain: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled | Left Foot Forward http://fb.me/L2GI8TjN

I was diagnosed with SPMS in 2009 xmas 2009 I recieved NO benefits at all after working 25 years of my life .It took months to get any money at all for 25 years of my life.This is the 3rd disease I am fighting.Genuine ill people suffer more than ones beating the system .I went back work 3 months after major surgery and worked full time to be treated like dirt.

RT @BendyGirl: RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled http://bit.ly/hy8tWV

I didn’t personalise it, I was answering your questions.

Yes, all IB claimants are reassessed every three years at least.

The 8% finding work are …..drumroll….. exactly the same percentage finding work without help.

My problem with people who say “Obviously those truly disabled should be helped” is they tend to ignore the overwhelming evidence that those in real need are not being helped.

I finally didn’t say anyone WANTED people to suffer or die, but if that is the result of some of these policies, then surely the government would WANT to change them now, before it’s too late?

Surely the point here, is that my article was about misinformation, misguided press releases and scaremongering – won’t you address why that is happening?

Munguin – I’m not sure I’m not mixing up the two…

Tris – My point is that I worked with the elderly and disabled doing IT for Social Services in South Wales and during that time four or five of the regulars got jobs and the change in their outlook was profound. Their parents had to run them to work and stuff but they were never sick, never late and never had a hangover.

At a supermarket in a nearby town here, a young man with Downs has been working with the public on a till and the change in him over the last couple of years is also amazing.

I just think that people need to work if they can and whilst it is difficult when unemployment is high and yes there are easier ways to save money, the incentive to work must be paramount.

I don’t see people as disabled, merely more or less abled. Perhaps it’s me…

Sue Marsh – I just disagree with the headline of your article – I do not believe the right wing press are “Screaming” at the disabled.

Since you wrote the article please tell me on what basis you can say 500K aren’t fit for work? From what I understand IDS believes that a wheelchair bound individual is perfectly capable of working in a call centre just as much as an able bodied person. I agree with that.

I realise there are jobs people don’t want to do irrespective of their ability but hey that’s applicable to anyone.

Work gives meaning to people’s lives, a reason to get up in the morning – it’s a good thing.

Finally on what basis do you say “The government seems unduly shocked that people with lifelong disabilities should receive awards for life”. I see no evidence of that at all…

Offices can be modified for wheelchairs. Those who are blind or cannot hear can use aids to help them.

If you spend all day vomiting into a bowl, it’s not so easy.

10 million people live with chronic illnesses and often, auto-immune conditions are actually made worse by working. Yet most people with “long term variable” conditions are being found fit for work.

In fact, the figure is much closer to 1.5 million being found fit for work as those put into the work capability group will have just one year when the changes come in to find employment. Sadly, cancer, bowel disease COPD, MS, Parkinson’s and many other conditions don’t keep a diary.

The basis I can say that the assessments are getting it wrong is that 40% of decisions go to appeal with up to 80% of decisions overturned – many don’t even bother appealing and no-one keeps records on what happens to them. People are dying before their tribunals.

Sue Marsh – No one is suggesting that a person who has the type of disability that you describe is fit to work and shouldn’t be supported. Clearly they are not fit to work and deserve all our support.

But there are people in this country that are fit to work – they appear in magistrates courts regularly for lying to get benefits when they do not have bad backs – whatever. It is straight forward fraud.

This does the people with genuine disabilities no favours. If the assessments are incorrect then the system needs to be sorted out.

This country cannot afford to pay benefits to people who are being dishonest – it isn’t fair on those genuine cases but to argue (as you seem to be) that the state does not have the right to ensure hard earned taxpayers aren’t having their money stolen by deceitful benefit cheats is also not right.

At some point in the past the Tories used IB as a means of massaging the employment figures and that situation needs to be addressed.

From your description of your illness I would suggest you have nothing to be concerned about, since you are doing nothing wrong…

RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled: http://bit.ly/ehtIkb says @suey2y

Anon E Mouse, you say “People need to work to give their lives meaning”. That almost exact dictum was inscribed (in German) over the gates of Auschwitz (Arbeit macht frei). That whole exercise began with Nazis testing out their death camps on mentally and physically disabled people. Disinformation and propaganda against the Jews followed.

Am I saying the Coalition Govt are Nazis? No, of course not. Yet there are striking parallels in the disinformation being thrown around by the authorities. The disabled – thanks to the right-wing press you apparently champion – have become “the new Jews”. http://wp.me/p1knur-4
And why, because the Government wish to give us dignity, self-respect, and fulfilment? No, of course not. They just want to save money, and targeting the sick, the disabled, and those least able to stand up for themselves (unlike students and trades unionists) are the easiest way to achieve that.

Look, you are free to go on believing the lies of your beloved Daily Mail. That’s your privilege. But don’t come here and troll against people who are more deserving of compassion and care than that. And if you care to find out FACTS, then go to the Broken Of Britain blog. It’s all there.

Anon,

You say:

“I just think that people need to work if they can and whilst it is difficult when unemployment is high and yes there are easier ways to save money, the incentive to work must be paramount.”

Aside from the right wing press the IDS/Grayling grovel buffs, who gave you the impression that people either on DLA or IB were workshy. First, the denial that employers do not seriously discriminating against physically or mentally challenged individuals is pure rubbish.

My experience from my volunteer work with the disabled, (I too instruct on IT skills for a charity my wife supports), is much different than what you have outlined. Those who make it to the interview stage, seldom get much further. None of this is due to a lack of effort or desire on their part.

As an IT professional I am sure you will appreciate that, to be blunt, the training that is available for these people from current providers is simply crap, (unless you are prepared to argue that the ability to create a hotmail account is a critical item industry has been lacking to date). The syllabuses I have seen provide no basic MS Office, Excel, Dreamweaver or Java. C++ etc training, have not even a base for perquisite consideration by professional qualifications such as MSC, CNA, Prince2, ITIL etc. No matter what advanced level they purport to prepare people for, they are professionally dead ended and singularly targeted for the lowest rungs of the corporate ladder.
You may have been fortunate to witness the few exceptions in the supermarket you mention, or in the IT positions mentioned, but I think you would be very hard pressed to supply any statistics that prove this to be a general rule. I think the situation is more aptly characterized by people who wish to work being impeded by institutional and prejudicial barriers.

Secondly, it seems to me, that people with chronic disorders have afflictions that are of long term duration. The notion that they have been on long term assistance for a blister on their finger is pure rubbish. Again, there may be the odd exception, but it is most certainly not the rule. The common excuse given in this regard is based upon fabricated insurance concerns.

The current policy changes do very little to support the people concerned and IMHO are more intent on applying sanctions and pressure on people who are very vulnerable indeed. I fail to see how this will make those effected feel better about themselves.

“At some point in the past the Tories used IB as a means of massaging the employment figures and that situation needs to be addressed.”

Even if that did happen, it happened so long ago now that almost everyone who was so “massaged” either has already retired, or is so close to doing so that retesting them will make very little difference.

No, the vast – the OVERWHELMING – majority of those who will be retested are people who are quite genuinely off sick, and were already being regularly retested. They will now fall foul of the fact that the ESA rules of eligibility, which were already drawn far tighter than the already stringent rules for IB eligibility, have now been tightened so far that a huge percentage of those who were very legitimately regarded by medical professionals as unable to work will now be arbitrarily ruled “fit for work” because their assessors don’t tick the right combination of checkboxes. (Even, evidence suggests, when they should.)

Take a look at the current ESA criteria sometime. Google ‘ESA214′; you’ll find them. Consider what combinations of conditions are actually necessary to collect the requisite number of points across the categories. Consider the debilitating things that don’t even figure in the eligibility criteria, at all. Consider how able someone who should be in the support group is actually going to be to get this across to some spotty little “trained healthcare professional” who won’t even look up from their computer screen for the whole 20 minutes of the interrogation.

And then tell me that government is acting fairly, reasonably, and with our best interests at heart. If you can actually force the words out. But until you’ve actually done your homework – as most of us have done, because we do, you know, RELY on this stuff for trivialities and luxuries like food we can actually prepare – and don’t make basic mistakes like not being sure whether you’re talking about ESA, DLA or IB, whilst being absolutely positive that you know what’s going on in the lives of one and a half million people you’ve never ever met… until then, you have nothing interesting to say. And I think we’d all rather you said nothing than continued to say nothing interesting.

TiddK – Don’t read The Daily Mail – never have. Not just because of Gordon Brown’s friendship with the editor but because as an ex Labour voter it wouldn’t be the done thing.

Whilst you start your Godwin’s Law diatribe against me, why don’t you actually read what my posts say and then retract your unfair remarks about what you think I’ve said.

If you think it’s OK to support people dishonestly obtaining benefits by deception that’s your privilege. But don’t come here and troll against people who are more deserving of compassion and care than that…

Okay, first of all, fraudulent claims are minimal. The DLA fraud rate is 0.05% (DWP Figures). There are people with disabilities capable of work. DLA is given to those people with disabilities to meet the extra costs of being disabled, whether they are working or not. Incapacity benefit is for those unable to work. Unfortunately, the new tests take little account of mental health problems, pain and, as pointed out fluctuating conditions. Surely those people in our society who are vulnerable are entitled to a reasonable standard of living? The government has an estimate of 16.5 billion in cuts, 3.5 billion of which it wants from the welfare budget. Just under a quarter of the total bill. Sorry, but that, along with the rhetoric the government is using, is victimisation.

scandalousbill – It is quite clear that I am saying that the headline of this article is wrong and that whilst I fully support IB for those deserving I do not support those cheating the system and if that involves people proving that they are indeed entitled to that benefit they should receive it.

I know nothing of the schemes and their usefulness as a means of employment training but suspect you are probably correct in your assertion of them – I’ve yet to see a decent employment scheme from any government of any colour.

(Mind you I did enjoy the YTS thing I did between college and the armed forces)

Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled | Left Foot Forward http://fb.me/L2GI8TjN @moronwatch moronic enough?!

gwenhwyfaer – I live about 25 miles from a valley’s town in South Wales called Merthyr Tydfil and my missus works in the area for Social Services.

She has service users who are fit to work but choose not to and claim stress – whatever. Despite numerous attempts to get them to go to interviews (and they are poor monetarily) they are simply too afraid to take the step and run to their GP’s for more anti depressants.

My business partner’s neighbours are now third generation workless in the family and he’s 53 years old.

From personal experience of a neighbour getting building work done on his house for cash three of the workers had been on IB since the mines closed in the 1980′s.

All I am trying to say is that I bet a lot of people know someone on benefits that shouldn’t be and that smears genuine claimants who should.

If people honestly need benefits of any type for any reason they should get them but to not check people’s eligibility is reckless…

I don’t support anyone obtaining anything by deception. But I’d rather see a hundred guilty men go free than one innocent wrongly convicted. That, as I understand it, is the principle of a just society.

As it is, the stats are rather more to the contrary – benefit fraud is somewhere around the 1% level, and we long since passed the point of diminishing returns. Indeed, almost the only people who will benefit from the ESA regime are those people claiming fraudulently. It’s the rest of us who are up the proverbial creek without a paddle. Or the use of our arms.

As for the necessity of this – there wasn’t any. I claimed IB in April 2008. When I claimed, I had to face the toughest ever PCA; and I was entering a regime of conditionality not unlike the ESA’s WRA grouping – except that they evidently had the discretion to silently drop me back into conditions equivalent to those of the Support Group if it became obvious that I wasn’t going to get any better. I say evidently, because that seems to be what has happened to me. Otherwise I’d have been reassessed twice so far already. And even that regime was rather too harsh; there was simply no reason to change it. The regime to which I was admitted could easily have been extended up towards longer claims over time. This mass rollout – which, as far as I can tell, is only achieving the inducement of a mass state of panic in one and a half million of the country’s most vulnerable citizens that could last up to three years – is both unnecessary and unjustifiable.

So you’re quite confident speaking about, and judging, people with whom your wife deals – presumably under condition of confidentiality – yet you won’t do basic research on what the rest of us are talking about?

Go away and stop trolling, before we make a concerted effort to discover your identity and report your wife for gross professional misconduct.

RT @FalseEcon: RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled: http://bit.ly/ehtIkb says @suey2y

RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled: http://bit.ly/ehtIkb says @suey2y

Even the Independent called it INVALIDITY benefit?! *headdesk*

Anon E Mouse. First, I have absolutely no idea what Godwin’s Law is. Second, you repeatedly spout about “fraud” and “dishonesty” as if you had some basis of fact for it. Here are the facts : DLA has the lowest level of benefit fraud of them all (less than 1%). FACT. Incapacity Benefit had a lower rate of fraud than Housing Benefit, Income Support, Council Tax Benefit, all put together. FACT. The occasional case appearing in your local magistrates court does not entitle you to generalise.

You have been told in this blog what the facts are. You’ve been told by people who deserve your RESPECT, your COMPASSION, and a minimum level of CARE and HUMAN DIGNITY. The fact that you ignore all these facts in favour of your own tired little theories proves only one thing : you are a troll.

IDEA….. Leave the real people who are disabled to get on with there lives,they don’t get enough to live on as it is & they are in poverty. I know as I am one of these people & have been for over 21 yrs.Lets see the M.P’S take a big cut in there pay like half, this would soon fill in the gaps. & NO perks for M.P’S

RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled: http://bit.ly/ehtIkb says @suey2y

Let’s just get a couple of things straight, here…

DLA is an untaxed, non-means-tested benefit that is available to those in or out of work.

IB and ESA were/are benefits for those too ill or disabled to work. Many found unable to work by IB criteria are found able to work, or to have a limited capability for work (sometimes conflated as able to work in the press) – this does not have to be because they were lying originally, it’s simply because ESA uses narrower terms an a less nuanced assessment. It might be that IB had terms too loose (I won’t claim authority on that), but I am confident that ESA has terms that are too narrow (assessing mobility based on a hypothetical wheelchair even if you’ve been advised medically NOT to use a wheelchair, for instance), and these are made more narrow by assessments that ignore detail, and ignore information from doctors. How else would the success rate at appeal be so high? The government has said that Decision Makers shouldn’t just take the ATOS WCA result as gospel, and should consider other evidence – but so far they don’t seem to.

It is impossible to define a finite list that allows for all justifications of being unable to work normally, unless it leaves room for nuance that would make unjustified claims possible. Well, or by spending enough time on each case by assessors that you may as well just pay the unjustified claims, as it would be cheaper.

People can be ruled fit to work by the WCA, but only really be able to get a job if they had some perfectly forgiving employer. Variable conditions may require days off, even weeks, at no notice. My own condition (well, one of them) gives me great difficulty getting up in the morning, so any start time won’t be met reliably by me unless it’s in the afternoon.

As it happens, I’m pursuing self-employment, but I’ve had no support in so doing because I wasn’t in a target group. If we don’t get to a sustainable level of clients before the money we’ve set aside (from savings from before either of us were ill) for the business run out, then I’ll start looking for suitable work immediately (living in hope) but I’ll still apply for ESA (and keep looking for work), because the lack of jobs I could realistically do means that I can’t meet the expectations of JSA. Maybe if there were something between ESA Work Related Activity Group and JSA, that actually considered the difficulties in finding suitable work for people like us, it would be easier and less misunderstood.

Considering the costs of the assessments and the fact they are designed to fail people no matter what their care needs or if these are being met in any way and then add the cost of tribunals and we see that they are spending more to make genuinely ill and disabled peoples lives more difficult. They are not giving incentives and help back to work they are bullying and exacerbating peoples health conditions telling them they are fit for work when they are not. It nearly killed me off but when you are part of a group of people being unfairly assessed and then made to wait 3/4 of a year to attend a tribunal, where thank god they still treat you as a human being more often than the so called medical assessments it makes you wonder what their real agenda is.

I think we’re pretty much answering the quetions aren’t we? If those needing help were getting it, it would all be fine, but they’re not. Almost ALL people with long term variable conditions are being found fit for work, but they’re clearly not.

THIS is the problem, the system is failing and if we don’t do something about it, people are going to suffer badly.

The CAB know it, the government’s own advisory committee know it, Harrington knew it Compass know it and even the professor who designed ESA says it’s chaotic and failing. How much more evidence do we need??

gwenhwyfaer – Charming. And how ‘New Labour’ you are. Let me guess you voted for Gordon Brown.

I disagree with your opinion and instead of putting forward any challenge to my argument you resort to smearing and threat: “Go away and stop trolling, before we make a concerted effort to discover your identity and report your wife for gross professional misconduct.”

My wife is perfectly entitled to speak to me in generalisations – the type of state control I suspect you would like to live under isn’t here yet.

Once again when faced with facts they disagree with, Labour supporters act in a totally disagreeable manner…

TiddK – Godwin’s Law at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin‘s_law – Don’t call me a Nazi please.

You say I’ve been “told” in this blog items you claim as fact. Where? – Don’t do Strawman on me please.

If the fraud is as low as you say then why on earth are you complaining about more means testing? Your argument is pointless and nothing more than a tribal rant.

And please don’t accuse me of being uncaring – you have no idea of my situation and are ignoring what I have posted. Like the person with the threats above you are simply resorting to smearing and by the way being called a troll by anyone who voted for Gordon Brown, as I suspect you did, couldn’t be an insult…

TiddK – And by the way, just because a person has a disability doesn’t mean they deserve my respect – compassion yes, care possibly but respect is not a given and nor should it be. Everyone should be treated with dignity regardless.

It seems I see people with disabilities as just that. No different to anyone else – just with a disability.

Perhaps if people started seeing people as human beings a bit more like me, we may be able to move forwards without feeling the need to be rude in public forums. Bit like your reply…

The article by Sue Marsh was superb and accurate. For al of you crowing abot getting seriously ill people back to work, don’t crow too loudly your turn could come. Are you immune from illness ? Is your job truly truly safe ? NO. I didn’t think so. You may well be hospitalised and need long term treatment, you may be diagnosed with a slowly prgressive cancer. Tomorrow your boss might tell you that you can be done without. Be careful you may need the welfare state yourselves. I hope not but wouldn’t take a bet on it.

But you don’t see people as human beings Anon and it’s plain obvious from your repeated dismissal and dodging of studiously documented evidence and giving the system almost unquestioning support.

I don’t think anyone should take you seriously until you post some evidence to back up your mythical version of reality.

I had cancer. I have Diabetes. I have hearing loss not fully corrected by two hearing aids. I have depression. I have chronic fatigue. I am left disabled by side effects of cancer treatment and I have to take tablets every day.

I have been left for the last 6 weeks without any income because the ESA say I am fit to work. I am appealing this decision. I am waiting. I am one of hundreds.

comments by anon e mouse should be disregarded, indeed should not have been allowed in the first place since he or she is too cowardly to even give a name!a self elected(or worse)cheap trick agent provocateour!who should be ignored by all(these people hate that)lest someone actually gives credence to their penny dreadful rabble rousing!

RT @FalseEcon: RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled: http://bit.ly/ehtIkb says @suey2y

Kate – I hope you;ll consider making a submission to the ESA enquiry. Just writing that is enough. http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/work-and-pensions-committee/news/announcement-of-esa-inquiry/

take it that anon e mouse is actually in the employ of those running or monitoring this site,only logical explanation for their inclusion,also banning justified criticism,pointless excecise participating,wish I hadnt bothered,wont again

Mason Dixon Autistic – On what basis do you falsely make your claim regarding how I see human beings Mason?

Please explain where I have dodged anything. At no point have I made any comment regarding people and their disabilities just the fact I believe the deserving should be helped and dishonest cheats shouldn’t. Please explain what’s wrong with that.

If people actually commented on my position rather than misrepresenting that position then making completely invalid remarks about their false premise they may realise my position isn’t a million miles from their own.

Unless of course they are making political points in support of the last thoroughly discredited government…

Its fairly simple all the private companies invited in to take over assesments of the sick and disabled are payed by results. Atos gets payed for finding people fit to work. It surprising finds that lots of people are fit to work. What a surprise. The level of sucess on appeals confirms this. I somehow dont think its the disabled commiting the fraud here. Its not a party politcial point as labour carried on with previous tory policy. I hoped things would change under milliband picking on the disabled tho seams to be a cut he supports.

It seems that many people are more interested in arguing and being right than the human rights that are being denied to people too ill to work but declared fit and so unable to get any help that was previously on off as a recipient of ESA. I am one of many who were unfairly declared fit for work and who cost the NHS significantly more due to the process of abuse trauma this process puts us through. I am quite familiar with abuse trauma after rapes and neglect from the system when I first became ill. By the way if it was bad before being ill in this country it is now an absolute nightmare that is increasing many peoples suicide ideation alongside exacerbation of their physical, mental and emotional conditions. They are punishing the ill not helping them. The few that are managing to keep blagging it do so without the intense levels of stress that genuinely ill and disabled people are feeling at this unfit for purpose harassment, which is nothing about assessing the reality of difficult lives.

My tribunal was after 9 months of recovering from the effects of being declared fit for work when I was getting closer to that through my efforts to face fears of panic attacks, social exclusion, etc. I was unable most of last year to even sleep in my own bed as that was upstairs and the only place I felt safe was my sofa. To be told I am being lazy is something I am used to. I am also used to being told I am brave and most people who have gone through what I have would be sat rocking in a corner and unable to communicate. I am just a human being who would really like to be treated as one and given a little compassion and care to help me get at least fit enough to consistently be able to self care and not face death too many times a year. You see some people don’t see the difficulties I live with and some do. Sadly the ones who decide if I am fit for work are those who don’t see my reality even though I have tried explaining it to them they tick a box and hey presto i am just lazy and not trying to get back to a consistent healthy balance where I may be able to go back to selling my art and crafts, if anyone can still afford to buy things. I don’t need motivation, a stock that would fill a shop does that. The ‘help’ I have been given through the jobcentre has all put that back it has never helped me or supported me in a way that could actually give me the pleasure of getting away from that abuse.

oh I won my tribunal, CAB were amazing and actually treated me with dignity and respect, they knew I should never have been put through this. The tribunal judge looked embarrassed as he told me I would be getting continual assessments. I was in a blur by that time, lack of sleep running up to it after 9 months of feeling like I was being accused of lying and every day trying to distract myself from rehearsing the tribunal, worrying they would see me as more able than I have had to admit to myself I would like to be and the system expects me to be, no matter what condition I have had to learn to live with.

The sick and tired get sick and tired of being sick and tired and being told they are lazy or don’t worry if you are genuine you will be taken care of. ACTUALLY NO if you become ill you are treated as scum.

I needed to say that! Ill people are human beings too, they deserve dignity and care. They are being abused by the system and society far too much and people who are blinkered to this just do not want to believe it but don’t worry one day it could be you and then you will find out.

RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled http://bit.ly/hy8tWV

Elaine – You say; “Ill people are human beings too, they deserve dignity and care”

Absolutely agree…

There are those who would also use me as an example of someone they know who is on the sick and has been spotted a few times a year looking like there is nothing wrong. They may have even said that the day i went to tesco clutching a cushion to my body with my upper arms if they didn’t look beyond the scarf that was mainly covering it up. Although the staff were fabulous that day and even though I was obviously distressed they treated me with dignity, served me and when I was served asked if I was okay and did I need a seat, drink of water. Had they asked first I may have run out of the shop and found the next time even more daunting.

Mostly if I have managed to get out of the house without close scrutiny and understanding you may be excused for thinking I am not suffering or will not suffer later for the activity of shopping or doing what most people take for granted. I may of may not smell as I may or may not have been able to bathe. It is often a choice of what activities I do and sometimes shopping means no cooking or making a cuppa unless I manage to co-ordinate with putting the essentials away.

Sometimes I am clean and tidy and outside the house and it doesn’t feel like I am carrying about 3 times my weight, which is funny because I am very underweight. And sometimes I may look too cheery and too light-hearted to be really ill. We never really know the full story of each other. I do not fit many stereotypes but people like to think they can spot the ones who are and maybe some of them are kind of pulling the lead as the saying goes but it is due to low self esteem for some I know that being abused as a child caused and lack of any care or understanding of that leads to further inability to get past that and more looking like a complete mess up to the rest of the world who has no idea.

We are so quick to judge and decide what people need to do to be acceptable. I am not acceptable to many because I am not able to maintain my physical, mental and emotional health enough to work and I can’t always explain that to the satisfaction of people who have power to make decisions about my life. That is a horrible way to live and I would never choose it. You can’t bully sick people to being able to work. You can’t bully a person then tell them it is their fault they are unable to sleep properly and eat properly but also deny it is a problem. We are all responsible for our contributions to the community around us and many of those who are able bodied are angry because they are getting so much stress they may join those who are ill and are scared of it. There is a climate of belittling conditions or the capacity of a person they deem to be fit and healthy or just being a bit hysterical about nothing, after all so and so down the road is depressed and works so why can’t you? So and so does little jobs here and there…I may in some phases of my conditions be able to do something without it half killing me, I can’t sustain it. Some people may also do odd jobs here and there and be able to sustain that work, or they may not be able to. The system is making it harder again to get back on ones feet after a fall, it was already hard enough.

RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled http://bit.ly/hy8tWV

Elaine – I know nothing about belittling conditions just that where scarce resources are not directed at those in need I have a problem with it. Clearly your situation is one where it is without question that you are indeed a person with disabilities but there are those who are not in your position.

Having read her blog many times, it is clear Sue Marsh is equally deserving of state help but also she has a clear Labour supporting agenda and personally I think that disabilities and such issues should rise above party politics.

I have big problems with the types of responses I have received on this blog for asking perfectly reasonable questions. If a person is able to make a post publicly then they should be able to qualify that opinion when challenged or don’t make the post.

Unpleasant replies with suggested threats from gwenhwyfaer above for example, or TiddK who effectively states that because I disagree with his/her post means I am uncaring go only to reinforce my belief that party politics should not be involved.

Those two shrill, grubby and smearing responses remind me why I will no longer vote for the Labour Party in it’s current incarnation. It is a shame those two do not realise that their position is undermined by those types of underhand tactics and their case would be far strengthened if they just dropped the politics of this and concentrated on the issue at hand…

Nice deconstruction by @suey2y of crap journalism about DLA and ESA. http://tinyurl.com/6dxzayz

Anon E Mouse:

“Godwin has stated that he introduced Godwin’s law in 1990 as an experiment in memetics.[2]

Godwin’s law does not claim to articulate a fallacy; it is instead framed as a memetic tool to reduce the incidence of inappropriate hyperbolic comparisons.

“Although deliberately framed as if it were a law of nature or of mathematics, its purpose has always been rhetorical and pedagogical: I wanted folks who glibly compared someone else to Hitler or to Nazis to think a bit harder about the Holocaust,” Godwin has written.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search? q=cache:yaEbRij3Y4gJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin’s_law+Godwin%E2%80%99s+Law&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&source=www.google.co.uk

Yes – THINK A BIT HARDER! The analogy is a sound one! LEARN from it!

We all often make assumptions and sometimes belittle each other in subtle maybe unintentional ways. I have merely responded to some of the things and attitudes that make all ill and disabled peoples lives more difficult. I am not interested in character assassinations I get enough of that directed at me, it is not nice and the sooner we all learn to play nicer together the sooner life can be less harsh.

The thing is we all do it to a certain degree. By judging a person as fit for work and milking the system from limited knowledge is a character assassination. When we judge we get judged back and anyone will be judged in a good way by some and a bad way by others. I personally would like to see less anger and vitriol at each other. More understanding that we can’t always see hidden disabilities and more readily available emotional and practical help for those who are struggling, without putting conditions on how a person is allowed to look to the outside world. Which of course can be abused and that is annoying for us all. But there are far less people abusing the system than is being portrayed by media and many people who think they know many who may be.

This is all being eroded, bad service for the ill and disabled is getting worse, the steps some charities are making for fighting the stigma are being totally undermined and people are nit picking at each other trying to see how to apportion the blame. Divide and conquer, it works doesn’t it? We are living in an era where we have been trained to be very suspicious of each other. Where we are always questioning who deserves to have a nice life or a bit of dignity. So we argue and bicker and say nasty things to each other and call each other trolls…and I am going to add a few of my thoughts about trolls…

Trolls live under bridges lurking in the shadows.
Bridge builders beware your inner troll may lurk too.
Feed the trolls love, don’t feed their hate. Never forget if you hate trolls look in the mirror from time to time, you may be a troll too. We trolls who are in the ‘right’, verses ‘wrong’ trolls.

We can learn in discussion. We can change views and we can discuss ways that things can be made more humane. I also don’t personally trust any politician to work for humanity and not to profit the already mega rich.

Elaine – I think you may be a secret hippy woman!

;-}

http://www.leftfootforward.org/2011/04/mail-telegraph-disability-benefits-myths/

[...] http://www.leftfootforward.org/2011/04/mail-telegraph-disability-benefits-myths/ [...]

there is .5% fraud with DLA and the condems propose to cut by 20% do the maths , there will be losers if this goes through. I have MS and receive the award indefinately, what will an annual assessment do for me apart from being stressful? my condition does not remit, it progresses so will I be miraculously cured?? I think not, will I get a one way ticket to dignitas? DLA is a benefit people receive to cover the addittional costs of being disabled and quite a few people receive it to support them in employment. I pay tax and I resent the government sponsored hateful reporting of the press directed at disabled people.

Anon E Mouse. You simply can’t use my “Labour Agenda” as an excuse here.
If you’ve really read my blog as you say, then you’ll know I have reserved my very worst censure for Labour. “Take Time to Listen and Learn Douglas Alexander” and “Are politicians deaf to the sick and Disabled” are still two of my most widely read posts and their scorn and fury at Labour is fierce.

On the radio yesterday, I went to lengths to point that in fact ESA was a Labour policy that the Conservatives are now making worse.

That’s the simple fact – you complain of poor treatment on this thread, yet you haven’t answered a single question, not one.

All you’ve done is ask post comments that judge and that will always ensure you get attacked back.

You didn’t address the fact that these WCA tests have been found unfit for purpose by the CAB, the Professor who designed ESA, the government’s own advisory committee and Harrington. That’s nothing whatsoever to do with Labour – none of those groups are partisan.

You didn’t address the fact that the article above is merely critical of the press reporting of DLA and ESA and the government spin on the figures. No-one set out an argument here about who’s really sick and who isn’t but you. The papers in question have clearly allowed atrocious journalism and caused millions of people receiving DLA stress and worry by getting the facts completely wrong. This is fact too, nothing whatever to do with Labour and has been confirmed by FullFact.

You say nothing about those things at all. You simply cling to your “knowledge” that lots of people are faking it despite all the evidence in front of you. People tried actually to engage with you on this thread, tried to give information, but you ignored all of it and ploughed on with your “Nothing to see here” line. Can you really be surprised that people became frustrated.

It is a cheap shot from someone who has usually lost the argument to fall back on “Oh well, she’s a leftie, she just has an axe to grind”

Yes, I’m a leftie, but that doesn’t mean I didn’t present you with facts, evidence & links.

Basically, the government can plough on as it is (they announced a total whitewash of the DLA enquiry yesterday, accepting not one single point made in over 5000 submissions) or they can stop and listen before it’s too late.

All I can say is that there has never been an assault on the living standards of sick and disabled people like this in living memory. That is not hyperbole but you can believe that it is if you choose. The effects of these policies will be seen soon enough. I just wish I could stop them before it’s too late.

I don’t think there is much of a secret in that one!

I’m an artist. I was training to do person centred counselling. And I meditate to avoid medication. I get angry sometimes that if I was taking the medication and quite possibly interrupting my progress with the inner work any training counsellor has to do but without actual support of trained counselling as that is not on offer here, doctors agreed with the way medications can affect my whole system I am better off doing what I am doing then I get assessed as does not take anti-depressants therefore is no suffering from depression or anxiety or post traumatic stress or the stress of living in substandard conditions, ooh is vocal at times so must be able to concentrate all the time and is surely being a lazy so n so if she is not out earning her living. Basically the fact I still have a sense of worth left is due to hard work and much meditation to let go of the anger of being seen as less than when i am struggling dashed hard. I know everyone is working hard and struggling in their own ways, so jealousy and suspicion are rife. Yeah free love and peas ;o)

I am 59, and have ‘received’ incapacity benefit for 2 years since forced ill-health retirement. In fact my benefit is reduced to zero because of my pension income and I receive nothing, but it does pay my National Insurance contribution. Maybe I COULD do some job on my good days, but who would be keen to employ an chronic arthritic 59 yr old who is unable to even leave home on bad days?

RT @leftfootfwd: Right wing press need to check facts before screaming at disabled http://bit.ly/hy8tWV

http://www.leftfootforward.org/2011/04/mail-telegraph-disability-benefits-myths/

Sue Marsh – Firstly this is your article and not mine so I assume you are the one who should answer the questions not me. For starters the headline is ridiculous and devalues your posting and although I accept it wasn’t yours, why you didn’t ask for a revision I do not know.

It implies that someone is “Screaming at the disabled” and yet I have never seen a single factual example of that because it isn’t true and serves only to weaken the case presented.

You claim you have linked to “evidence” but I see no sign of that either – just a report from the Daily Mail and Telegraph. Hardly evidence and certainly not from the government.

Your first paragraph makes claims about the government. Please tell me where the government has “twisted the facts”. Your article does not link to a single government minister just your biased assertion which I do not believe and I also do not believe stuff I read in the papers either. Your remark about “twisting” actually links to another page on this very site (DWP War? – Please) which again is an opinion not based in fact – that author even has the cheek to link to another page he wrote.

Your problem here is that I disagree with you and in typical left leaning fashion you don’t like it. I have asked you why you do not believe 500,000 people aren’t fit for work and you refuse to reply.

Regarding “poor treatment” in responses, how would you describe a person saying they would report your spouse for misconduct because the truth wasn’t something they wanted to hear or that I was “uncaring” because I believe that governments have a responsibility to ensure our money goes to the right people.

What is wrong with hard working taxpayers expecting some competence in the distribution of the money we worked for? You may argue that the system is defective or whatever but you’re not doing that Sue.

You are making blanket assumptions, made with a clear political bias, against this government rightly attempting to clamp down on benefit fraud. Fraud is wrong and shouldn’t be accepted by anyone – it isn’t fair on the people who do need that benefit and to be totally consistent here I make no comment on people in genuine need.

Finally I assert that you devalue your position by being so clearly biased and partisan and the message gets drowned out when it is an important issue that does need to be addressed…

Anon E Mouse – I have no idea why you’re still digging.

1) The headline isn’t mine – get over it.

2) I’ve linked to two studies to prove that the assessments are unfit for purpose.

3) Chris Grayling has been reported to the HoC under breach of the minister code at least 4 times that I am aware of for releasing politicised press releases.

4) I did say why I don’t believe 500,000 will be genuinely fit for work – 40% of decisions are going to tribunal remember? With up to 80% of decisions overturned.

I shan’t reply any more, because in the face of overwhelmingly evidence you are simply becoming more and more personal and it just looks embarrassing on the thread.

Oh yes and if fraud was what you really worried about, the DWPs own figures record it to be around 0.5%. This isn’t about fraud at all, it’s about tightening the criteria for eligibility. Fraud is around 7.500. By all means go and catch those people, but it isn’t even in the same ball park as 500,000 is it?

Sue Marsh -I’m still digging because my position has been represented incorrectly in spite of my postings and inaccurate personal comments have been made about me by other contributors here.

I see no overwhelming evidence to support your claims – I never made any personal comments about you as an individual, just your entrenched views that do you a disservice.

I do agree though to leaving it there…

My case and many like mine and worse are also pretty glaring evidence that they are declaring people fit for work when they are not, like that lady who was on telly the other day who is recovering from a stroke and was not believed that she couldn’t see how many fingers the assessor was holding up. The whole point of this is they are making ill peoples lives much worse in large numbers and it is going to get worse. People will die. I have many things that help me cope, not everyone has those safety nets that I have. I am lucky I am still here but it is not thanks to the system…

Something about “Invalidity benefit” in the Telegraph

Anon’s position has been represented accurately and inaccurately, but he does not distinguish between these.

He has been asked questions and not answered them. He has been given source-able citations in evidence and has denied he has been given them. Up is down, black is white and if you disagree you are a Labour supporter.

Anon. Thank you for enlightening me about Godwin’s Law. However, the fact that I had no idea what it was proves I was NOT invoking it. And I did NOT call you a Nazi – go back and READ this time. I suggest that you also go and actually read my blog that I linked to above. You might be enlightened as to the agenda behind behind not only the right-wing tabloid press, but also the Coalition Govt, AND New Labour who actually started the whole ESA business. (No, I didn’t vote for Gordon Brown).

If you are not trolling, then I apologise for accusing you of it, but you have to admit that someone who sticks to a contrary line in the face of facts presented by others, is certainly behaving like one. Be that as it may. I withdraw that.

You say, “What is wrong with hard working taxpayers expecting some competence in the distribution of the money we worked for?”. You imply – as does Cameron and every other Govt spokesperson, and the entire right-wing press, THAT SICK AND DISABLED PEOPLE ARE NOT TAXPAYERS!!!!! FIRST – let me agree with your sentiment. Only a fool would not want to see competence in the administration of public finances. Waste not, want not. SECOND – I am not working (I have had progressive MS for over 10 years and it gets worse by the month, let alone years), but I PAY TAXES!!! To enumerate : Council Tax, VAT on nearly everything I buy, on my savings, on my insurance policies, excise duty on the occasional drink I allow myself, a HUGE amount of excise duty when I buy petrol for my legs (Yes, my car is my legs), oh and lest we forget – notionally on my Incapacity Benefit, for which the DWP send me a P60 every year. So, *I* am a taxpayer too.

But perhaps you meant only those who pay Income Tax? Poor dears. The lowest rate of Income Tax for generations, after the cosseting of the last x number of Chancellors, not to mention a shibboleth of “every other damn tax can be increased but NOT Income Tax.”

So please, if you intend to stay here and argue your corner, please argue with some intelligence, and assume some intelligence on the part of your readers. And if you put forward an unarguable case for cutting the benefits of the genuinely sick and disabled (as is actually happening) then I will have no reply. But until that day, please do us the courtesy of Googling some facts :
Paul Gregg’s verdict on ESA testing (designer of ESA, the replacement for Incapacity Benefit)
Professor Harrington (independent report into the efficacy of ESA assessments)
UNUM in the USA (parent company of ATOS Healthcare)
David Cameron’s pre-election speeches on protecting the disabled
Ed Miliband’s position on welfare “reform” (aka cuts – he’s for it – see, I didn’t vote for Gordon..)

‘People need to work to give their lives meaning.’
Maybe, maybe not. It used to be fashionable for many millions of women not to work outside the home. Were their lives ‘meaningless’? Meaning is what you make of it. My life does not lack meaning because I have no job. It may lack meaning because I am numbed by painkilling drugs, unable to engage with my environment due to incorrectly administered drugs hat have caused more damage to function and memory. I am none the less valuable for that. ‘Obviously if they are truly disabled they should be helped’

If I hear that used as a get-out-of-gaol-free-card for offensive opinions one more time I will scream! Every time someone says that they are trolling the genuinely disabled people they claim to support, maybe it’s the years of offensive comments along the lines of’ you’re not that disabled’, ‘there’s nothing wrong with you’,etc that people with heart conditions, brain tumours and fairly apparent disabilities like C.P. have to listen to. We are not in a competition to see who is the most disabled and if we were would not ask the kind of people who usually give their opinions to be our judges.
I do not suppose that the writer of this article was arguing for no checks at all, though this is a common misconception of what we want. Talk of sweeping assumptions. Ms Mouse seems to think that many mildly ill people will remain unchecked. I doubt that very much. In the interests of a balanced argument, (I am a scholar, not a politician)I will admit that at one stage I was not checked for 7 years. However, maybe I SHOULD have been assessed to see if my Cerebral Palsy, brain tumour, learning disabilities and severe fatigue caused by a multitude of drugs had miraculously left me with the capacity to be outside the home unsupervised or able to ‘work’ at anything for more than a few minutes at a time. To give another example, how is it ‘kind’ for the parent of a child with profound permanent disabilities to be multiply harassed/assessed to see if they’ve ‘got better’? How can it be kind to suggest the state should make checks on people who will obviously be in the same position in 30 years time. Imagine the scene please, ‘Excuse me, does your child still have profound disabilities?’ ‘Yes, she is still deaf, blind, doubly incontinent with a mental age of four and severe epilepsy. How kind of you to ask.’
We all have aspirations and yes, people should aspire to be the best they can but when their best is still not enough to match up to that of able-bodied people or to make them acceptable to employers the ‘aspiration’ of helping to get them off benefits’ is taxpayers spite masquerading as laudable hogwash. And not very convincing hogwash. Ms Mouse may have been unconvinced by this article but I remain unconvinced that anyone who speaks of the ‘truly disabled’ in such tones has any idea of what they are talking about. I am truly disabled’yet I do not believe Ms Mouse and her ilk support me one iota. Nor do I wish to be supported by them.

TiddK – Your posting requires a more considered response from me. I will get back to you late afternoon / evening – just pushed for time today and I need to check a couple of things with reference to waht you’ve said to make sure my next post is accurate.

Disability Historian – Your response leads me to believe you haven’t bothered to follow my string of posts here but anyhow.

You may not consider that people’s lives can have meaning via their work -fair enough but that is how most people define themselves. I’m an engineer and the first people ask if I meet them for the first time is what I do. I have yet to see a single example of someone not having their job discussed whilst being descriptive.

That is not to say that if a person is not able to work because of a disability or lack of available employment there is anything wrong with that – it’s just how it is.

You try to imply that since I say “if they are really disabled” that means something else. Not to me it doesn’t and if you read my previous postings you would see that was the case.

You say: “I do not suppose that the writer of this article was arguing for no checks at all, though this is a common misconception of what we want. Talk of sweeping assumptions”.

When did I make that assumption? You have assumed that is what I have said when it clearly isn’t because you haven’t bothered to read my posts and you have then gone into a rant about something I haven’t said – it’s called “Strawman”. What type of a scholar are you Disability Historian?

Regarding this article there is nothing to be “convinced” about. From the headline onwards it has no basis in fact and just cites newspapers as government policy rather than newspaper articles or postings on this very site which are essentially Labour supporting opinions not fact.

At no point have I said the disabled shouldn’t get benefits because I believe they should. For anyone to suggest otherwise is dishonest and unfair. If you have a complaint about the unfairness of the assessments then make that case but do not start shrieking about something you think I’ve said when I ask perfectly reasonable questions about the article in question – which is essentially anti government, Labour supporting hogwash…

I will await your considered response Mr Mouse. However, just to challenge the last sentence of your previous post : “the article in question … is essentially anti government, Labour supporting hogwash”. Actually no – if you go and re-read it, you will see that it is an article about the MEDIA, especially the Press. Certain “facts” presented by them are plain wrong, and the article’s writer simply corrects them.

TiddK – I need to check through your links is all. You’ve been polite enough to list them – I’ll extend that courtesy by reading them.

Regarding your last post 60, The very first sentence of Sue’s article states:”Disability campaigners spend months trying to build up awareness of sickness (ESA) and Disability (DLA) benefits, only to have their work totally undone in just a few minutes by a government intent on twisting the facts to suit their agenda…”

Which government minister articulated anything at all along those lines? Also she continues: “wheelchair-fairy”

Please. This is a serious issue that clearly affects peoples lives and deserves more than a trivial remark like that. Frankly I wouldn’t expect such a remark from a sixth form student.

She then states that the papers have the type of allowance wrong. And? (It’s a mistake I assume) Are the three points they make true or not? That’s the important thing surely, not if someone got something wrong at a paper.

• Up to 500,000 are ready to start work immediately;
• People on lifetime benefit are more likely to retire or die than get a job;
• 38 per cent just need the right support to get back to work.

Are these statements right or wrong TiddK? – I assumed they were correct – not that I based any of my comments on them. My point is more general about people with disabilities in general – not some sort of victim mentality or anything just that fraud is unacceptable and if someone is not entitled to a benefit then they shouldn’t get it.

On the specifics here I think the point Sue should have made was about the good or bad points of the assessments and not whether the government has the right to insist on them or not. Her political leanings ruin what could have been a thoroughly worthwhile article instead of this ill conceived biased diatribe against the popular press. (In my opinion)

It is a shame that the style of writing has been discussed more than the points of importance here. It is a shame there has been name calling and nit picking. It seems there is a genuine wanting to understand.

The assessments are harming people.

The cost of these assessments and tribunals is costing more than is being saved.

The fear that ill and disabled people are feeling due to experiencing unfair assessments is causing exacerbated conditions and in too many cases resulting in severe poverty and distress to add to the conditions. Some people are dying before their tribunal. It is a huge shame on this nation what is happening to the genuinely ill and disabled because the media and the governments have both worked on twisting the jealousy and how unfair it is that people on benefits can afford this that and the other while ‘hard working’ people have to struggle. Many on benefits are living in shocking conditions. I know mine shock many people and some judge me as not acceptable because of them, whereas it is testimony to the neglect I have been shown by services now being cut even more.

The climate we are living in undermines the self worth, well being and quality of life for all those who are being scrutinised and continually being forced to quantify why they are in the position they are in. They say beggars can’t be choosers. I didn’t ever want to be a beggar but as a person who is ill that is what I have become. A beggar that the system will punish at every turn they can it so often seems. A beggar that everyone seems to think they can judge and advise on the best way to get better.

The prejudice encountered is getting worse, the relief at finding understanding and compassion often means tears with a nicer feeling.

Elaine – You raise good points and I fully agree that the system of assessment looks like it does need revision…

These hypothetical 500,000 people are no more ‘ready to start work immediately’ than they ever were. All that’s happened is the goal-posts have moved. People with a given set of problems were considered unfit for work, now suddenly they’re fit for work…

Never mind the fact that, as supported by the high success rates at tribunal, many are found ‘fit for work’ despite the fact that, per the legal criteria, they are not.

Anon. You wanted facts. Here are some facts.

I’ve SEEN the revised assessment form – the official document – signed off in January 2011 for use by HCPs (Healthcare Professionals) from this month, April 2011. I’ve read through it, scoured it with a fine toothcoomb. I know what they are testing for and, by omission, what they are not.

Now as I said above, I have progressive MS. My main symptoms are – Fatigue – Spasms – Incontinence – Cognitive ‘misfiring’ – Weakness. What I will be tested for, under the revised system, is : Incontinence, and Weakness (to the extent that it affects walking, standing, bending, kneeling). The three kinds of MS fatigue I experience every day? Nope. Spasms? Nope. Cognitive malfunction (where it is less than to make me a sociopath, psychopath, or autistic)? Nope.

Extending this to all diabetics, people suffering Parkinsons, Muscular Dystrophy, Motor Neurone, Fibromyalgia, and heaven knows how many other serious conditions, will not have major symptoms / symptom groups tested for. And THAT is the hidden truth behind all those headlines presented above in the article.

Yes, the press made serious errors in naming the kind of benefit – DLA instead of Incapacity Benefit. What makes you think the other ‘facts’ presented are equally reliable? 500,000 people ASSESSED as ready to start work immediately does not mean they are. Many of their symptoms will not have been tested for or taken into account. Many will appeal against the decision, and around half will win their appeals. “People are more likely to die on a lifetime benefit than get a job?” Actually, the ONLY lifetime awards that are made are of DLA. DLA is awarded to people whether IN work or NOT in work, so that piece of reporting is logical nonsense.

Carry on researching. No-one here has told you a lie. Just because the website is the opposite of your own politics, does not mean that we here blogging are talking rubbish. Keep digging. The truth is out there and you’ve been told part of it already.

TiddK – Thank you for your response – I have a relative with the same condition as you have. He’s in year 3, is wheelchair bound and not doing well. I worked with the disabled for a couple of years for Social Services (just teaching general email, word processing – simple stuff really) and three or four also had MS and it wasn’t good. You have my best wishes for your situation.

You have also responded and I agree with the majority of your reply. I also agree that if the papers can make one mistake then they can make more than one but that doesn’t mean the government shouldn’t have the right to assess individuals – it should.

I do however believe that if the assessment is not suitable and from peoples responses I have no reason to believe that they are incorrect, then that is the case that should be made.

Because of the silly language of this article it has devalued the content which is a shame.

I have read Sue Marsh’s blog (via Éoin Clarke and his Green Benches) on a few occasions and just feel if she made a more generalised point instead of the dogmatic Labour stuff which really is unattractive her case would be better made.

I have never said that people were talking rubbish, just that to dismiss a policy just because a government they didn’t vote for brought it in is pretty pathetic and means any genuine point made gets lost in the fog.

(Btw I voted Labour my whole life until they forced Brown on us with his clamp down on civil liberties, his employee McBride smearing Cameron around the time his disabled son died and all the other disgraceful actions against the country and now I am so disillusioned I cannot see me ever voting for that bunch of hypocrites again. For a party that used to represent the working class they should be ashamed of themselves.)

Thank you for your response Anon – you understand more than you let on! You did make one factual error which surprised me : it wasn’t the Coalition Government that brought in the ESA testing. It was New Labour, effective from 2008. What the present Government has done is 1) remove the Mobility DLA from those in residential care (but that is a whole new discussion) 2) time-limit contributory ESA to 12 months and 3) are planning to replace DLA – a benefit which actually IS fit for purpose – with a new benefit PIP which will require us all to undergo the assessments all over again.