A-list Tory ‘asks’ how we can stop the poor from having too many kids

Convervative MP Harriett Baldwin, elected as part of David Cameron’s hand-picked “A-list” to represent West Worcestershire, has called for “a discussion” on whether out of work people with four children should get any child benefit or child tax credits if they have a fifth child.

Harriett-Baldwin Speaking on Radio Five this morning (00:05 to 00:15), Baldwin said:

“Does it really make sense if you’ve already got four children and have never been in work to take on the responsibility of bringing another child into the world?

“A lot of people would think long and hard about “can we afford to have another kid”, and I think it is worth thinking long and hard about implementing this approach they have in the States.

“The discussion point that I’ve put out there is that once you’ve had four kids – and i think that four kids is a huge responsibility for anybody – you’re going to think long and hard about ‘can I afford to have an additional mouth to feed?‘”

Doubtless, Baldwin will use her language of “discussion” and “talking points” to argue that she is only asking questions, but she still states as fact things which are nothing but.

For instance, she wrote on Conservative Home:

“Twenty two US states used the “family cap” to rule that any family on state welfare is not eligible for any additional support for children conceived while on state benefits.

“If those who are in a workless household were told that they would not receive additional benefits for any new babies until such time as the household has a wage-earner, work incentives would be stronger.”

In fact, as the Cornell Law Review states:

Social science research indicates that welfare recipients do not base their child-bearing decisions on receipt of welfare benefits, thus rendering questionable the effectiveness of family caps in deterring welfare recipients from having more children.

Baldwin also accepted on Radio Five that it was an “important question” as to whether such measures would harm children.

Again, if she’d researched these “questions” a bit before publicly asking them, she’d have found the answers.

Cornell Law Review, again, confirms:

By reducing the benefits families receive to satisfy basic necessities, family caps are also likely to exacerbate the many mental and physical health problems that children in poverty are already at increased risk of developing.

Baldwin does not want to “ask questions”, or “have a discussion”. She wants to punish children for the decisions of their parents.

Also today, the Times confirmed what we reported on two weeks ago: that Osborne will not increase benefit payments in line with September’sinflation of 5.2%.

What will he spend the money on? Fuel duty:

The Times has learnt that key ministers, including Iain Duncan Smith, the Work and Pensions Secretary, have agreed that 5.7 million people claiming benefits for the unemployed will each lose hundreds of pounds a year.

The savings are likely to go towards the Government’s ambition to scrap the planned 3p-a-litre rise in petrol in January, which would cost £1.5 billion. George Osborne, the Chancellor, is anxious to keep to his deficit reduction plan and is said to be putting further pressure on Mr Duncan Smith’s £200 billion welfare budget.

Like an anti-Robin Hood, this government seems intent on taking from the poor to give to the rich.

See also:

• How poor children will get poorer on Cameron’s watch – Dr Sam Royston, October 11th 2011

• Misleading to claim welfare reform will cut child poverty levels – Nicola Smith, February 22nd 2011

• Housing benefit changes even more unfair than child benefit cuts – Pete Challis, October 11th 2010

• Ten policy headaches for the government on child benefit – Sunder Katwala, October 5th 2010

• Child benefit cuts will result in a worse deal for the poor – Richard Exell, May 14th 2010

http://www.facebook.com/people/Matt-Tysoe/711623798 Matt Tysoe

It should be two children. We are overpopulated as it is and our education system is buckling. Why do I pay my taxes just so people can eb paid to have sex and get pregnant over and over again? ABOUT TIME PEOPLE SHOWED SOME RESPONSIBILITY.
http://twitter.com/Newsbot9 Newsbot9

So what, a policy like China’s? Ah yes, the Totalitarians crawl out the woodwork on this issue.

If you want people to have fewer kids, give them a deacent pension.
Gojoke

This Baldwin person is clearly a complete idiot and should remove herself from public life.
http://twitter.com/syzygysyzygysue/status/137624376261615618 Sue Davies

RT @TheRightArticle A-list Tory ‘asks’ how we can stop the poor from having too many kids – http://t.co/EZBtEhzj. Good grief.
Matthewfox

Typical response from a party in trouble.
Anonymous

This topic is a bit like immigration – difficult to discuss without triggering entrenched ideological positions.

However…., if we have a housing crisis, massive youth unemployment and are struggling to tackle climate change, over fishing and species extinction generally, do we not have to think carefully about factors affecting population size. Now that’s not to say that the narrow minded twoddle of some privileged Tory is worth listening to of course. For me, the way to go is to move to a much less unequal society and a world class education system along the lines of the Nordic model. A relatively dysfunctional society like America is probably not the place to look for ideas!
http://twitter.com/stevegpreston/status/137636336436920321 Steve Preston

RT @leftfootfwd: A-list Tory ‘asks’ how we can stop the poor from having too many kids http://t.co/eHSHpY3E Where do these people come from?
http://twitter.com/cllrkrichards/status/137637636146864128 Kevin Richards

"How disgusting Political sterilisation"leftfoot: A-list Tory ‘asks’ how we can stop the poor from having too many kids http://t.co/nxNcuth0
http://twitter.com/lilminxv/status/137637847753695233 VeeBee

http://t.co/6bnT76Jk @Kareneatstories here it is
http://twitter.com/kareneatstories/status/137638768101437441 Karen

Children in need? http://t.co/S9SuTpJi it could be you. #CIN
http://twitter.com/mygibbo/status/137652727026159617 Alan Gibbons

RT @leftfootfwd: A-list Tory ‘asks’ how we can stop the poor from having too many kids http://t.co/jjJOxglk A whiff about the Thirties here.
Mr. Sensible

“Social science research indicates that welfare recipients do not base their child-bearing decisions on receipt of welfare benefits, thus rendering questionable the effectiveness of family caps in deterring welfare recipients from having more children.Type your comment here.”

I think I read on the BBC News Website an admission of that from Baldwin herself!

And I think it is a disgrace that the government is redistributing billions away from those who need it to a headline-grabbing decision to scrap the fuel duty increase. After all, Osborne’s 1P cut in fuel duty had so much of an impact didn’t it… A better idea would be to cut VAT to 17.5%.
http://twitter.com/labourlocalgov/status/137661395134189569 Labour Local Gov

Tory Harriet Baldwin’s “questions” about whether poor parents ought to be punished for having too many children. http://t.co/75i4YowA
http://twitter.com/kelti5/status/137661670192447489 Keltis

RT @leftfootfwd: A-list Tory ‘asks’ how we can stop the poor from having too many kids http://t.co/0ylQNkKD
http://twitter.com/labourtim/status/137662033050087424 Tim

RT @leftfootfwd: A-list Tory ‘asks’ how we can stop the poor from having too many kids http://t.co/ZQ0iZRQN
http://twitter.com/pinkpolitika/status/137662356300894208 Pink Politika

RT @leftfootfwd: A-list Tory ‘asks’ how we can stop the poor from having too many kids http://t.co/0ylQNkKD
http://twitter.com/havantacluotmp/status/137848010909560833 Jeni Parsons

RT @leftfootfwd: how we can stop the poor from having too many kids http://t.co/3GWulu5M #otmp occupylondon Swift's proposal next?
http://twitter.com/otmpeterloo/status/137848895232417792 Peterloo

RT @leftfootfwd: how we can stop the poor from having too many kids http://t.co/3GWulu5M #otmp occupylondon Swift's proposal next?
http://twitter.com/weetedscotland/status/137851241014374400 DJE

RT @leftfootfwd: A-list Tory ‘asks’ how we can stop the poor from having too many kids http://t.co/dwqgRGrK
http://twitter.com/wildey2/status/137852266479763456 Wildey

RT @leftfootfwd: how we can stop the poor from having too many kids http://t.co/3GWulu5M #otmp occupylondon Swift's proposal next?
http://twitter.com/saffronkim/status/137950525361618944 Kim

Anagram of #HarrietBaldwin is Wind Breath Liar! http://t.co/W0gVcHI5
http://twitter.com/rscandle/status/137959507526549504 Psyborg9

RT @leftfootfwd: A-list Tory ‘asks’ how we can stop the poor from having too many kids http://t.co/DEGloS2h
http://twitter.com/psychedelicdono/status/137990829091463168 donald james pearl

RT @leftfootfwd: A-list Tory ‘asks’ how we can stop the poor from having too many kids http://t.co/oo2lUASV
Tanya

Matt- you don’t pay taxes so that “people can be paid to have sex and get pregnant over an over again.” We, (those who can currently afford them) pay taxes to help ensure that children aren’t left in poverty, regardless of the actions of their parents. No?
http://twitter.com/12kazuko12/status/138112095232327680 12kazuko12

RT @leftfootfwd: A-list Tory ‘asks’ how we can stop the poor from having too many kids http://t.co/eHSHpY3E Where do these people come from?
http://twitter.com/12kazuko12/status/138112511626063872 12kazuko12

"If she’d researched these “questions” a bit before publicly asking them, she’d have found the answers" http://t.co/BKKtTPZh
http://twitter.com/theiancruise/status/138243033014607872 Ian Cruise

RT @leftfootfwd: A-list Tory ‘asks’ how we can stop the poor from having too many kids http://t.co/XUBiDPf0
http://www.leftfootforward.org/2011/11/look-left-20-11-11/ Look Left – Tories past and present battle to out-nasty each other | Left Foot Forward

[...] Tory leader no less - that you probably won’t have heard of and wouldn’t want to hear from: Harriett Baldwin. In an interview on Radio Five, and a blog on Conservative Home, she said poor people should be [...]
http://twitter.com/kaschwilder/status/138367030599491584 Kasch Wilder

RT @leftfootfwd: A-list Tory ‘asks’ how we can stop the poor from having too many kids http://t.co/mc6z9hHw
http://twitter.com/ros4dorset/status/138384617634922496 Ros Kayes

RT @leftfootfwd: A-list Tory ‘asks’ how we can stop the poor from having too many kids http://t.co/mc6z9hHw
John

“Social science research indicates that welfare recipients do not base their child-bearing decisions on receipt of welfare benefits, thus rendering questionable the effectiveness of family caps in deterring welfare recipients from having more children.”

What social science research would that be?

I was born and raised on a council estate in one of the most deprived areas of the country (& possibly Europe) and I know several families who have done exactly that – and with ruthless, calculated precision too. Two of my sisters did it and said that’s what they were going to do beforehand! One even dumped her first three children’s father because he wanted to get a job.

Please, if you’re going to start throwing the word ‘research’ around, as if it adds some academic weight to an opinion, give us a link to that research.
John

Sorry, just read the article properly!
http://twitter.com/dianelawrence1/status/139093545138126848 Diane Lawrence

RT @leftfootfwd: A-list Tory ‘asks’ how we can stop the poor from having too many kids http://t.co/HQSZ1G0u
http://twitter.com/tedbrown08/status/139350424275779585 Edward Brown

Unreal…….http://www.leftfootforward.org/2011/11/star-tory-harriett-baldwin-plan-to-stop-poor-having-too-many-kids/
http://twitter.com/tedbrown08/status/139351130231672833 Edward Brown

@johnprescott This is unreal!!http://www.leftfootforward.org/2011/11/star-tory-harriett-baldwin-plan-to-stop-poor-having-too-many-kids/
Laurencemead

The worlds population can’t go on growing and growing. Solution; we have less kids. Basic logical step ; The Govt. stops supporting and encouraging people to have more children. No child support past 2 children from 9 months time (yes, except for some means tested basic (and I mean basic) payment to keep children from starving and keep a roof over there heads – maybe food stamps not cash)
http://www.leftfootforward.org/2011/12/welfare-reform-bill-housing-benefit-social-housing-iain-duncan-smith/ Could the welfare bill signal the death of social housing? | Left Foot Forward

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