The Left has to raise its voice on the Falklands

I hope you also agree to Scotlands right to self determination I see no sign of that as yet from the labour party in Scotland In fact the opposite is the reality

All wings and none agree with self-determination in both the Falklands and Scotland. Scotland and its people continue to want to remain British in the union but with the Holyrood parliament according to the polls. That is the position of Labour

Polls indicate less Scots want independence than those who wish to remain in the UK. This is an article about the Falklands; do not derail it.

My only concern is that the debate over the Falklands will escalate to the point that it dominates the political agenda, distracting the populace at the same time that this government goes about reconfiguring the welfare system and NHS. I also believe that many members of the younger generation consider the Falklands war to have been a conflict not worth the expenditure of British lives. I certainly do not wish our country to once again send troops across the world in an echo of the imperial wars of two hundred years ago.

Self-determination is a bourgeois democratic demand not a socialist demand. Support for self determination has to be subordinated to our desire as socialists to advance the cause of the working-class, and its greatest unity across borders. I support the right of the Falkland Islanders to Self-determination on that basis. Socialists in Argentina should oppose the sabre rattling of their Government over the issue. But, nor should socialists in Britain allow the working-class here to be diverted by the issue. Our main enemy is at home, not in Argentina.

As Lenin put it when the Second International was discussing this at the beginning of the last century, ultimately the rights of a small minority in a small country cannot be sustained, if in doing so it causes two other large states to be pushed into a terrible war to do so. In any such war between Britain and Argentina over this issue, the number of dead would likely be greater than the 3,000 population of the Islands. Britain, showed no interest in defending the right of self-determination for the inhabitants of Diego Garcia, who they evicted in order to establish a US military base.

Socialists should advise the inhabitants of the Falklands that rather than cause such a conflict they should be prepared to give up their right to self determination. Instead, it would be far more rational for them to demand considerable compensation, in return for relocation, a compensation which the people of Diego Garcia have as yet been denied.

It’s funny that no one has pointed out that the reason that both sides want the Falklands is all the oil underneath it. As usual the poor islanders are stuck between all the sabre rattling

"The Left has to raise its voice on the Falklands", @leftfootfwd – http://t.co/s1OkiHi4 >> Agreed: Argentina doesn't have a leg to stand on.

RT @leftfootfwd: The Left has to raise its voice on the Falklands: http://t.co/BSTC5ZWO writes @jhallwood #falklands #NewsClub

The Left has to raise its voice on the Falklands (via @leftfootfwd) http://t.co/wxPgrKcx

@Michael Bater: The oil issue is certainly a factor in the escalation – but the fact is the Islanders are almost 100% in favour of remaining with the UK. We should support that right.

@Boffy: Diego Garcia was a disgraceful act by the British government – a lesson in when we ignore the rights of island inhabitants, not one I’d want to repeat with the Falklands at all.

@Kibbeo: There are other huge issues on the agenda certainly – but defending the Falklands is simply the right thing to do and common sense. The only ‘imperial’ action is from an expansionist and irredentist Argentina.

@Todd and Mutafe: Absolutely agree with Scotland’s right to self-determination. If they choose to leave the union that’s their right. Same goes for the Falklands. It’s important to be consistent in terms of where we support self-determination.

RT @leftfootfwd: The Left has to raise its voice on the Falklands http://t.co/TQODGFKg

@boffy: i suppose from your logic it would be perfectly acceptable for any nation larger in size, say russia or china to lay claim and take control of britain with no objection from us or america as just to avoid a conflict?

#UK : The Left has to raise its voice on the Falklands http://t.co/xyVHr2P0

Argentina is in no position to lecture UK on imperialism given their continued suppression of indigenous rights http://t.co/uPmLSfVH

Argentina is in no position to lecture UK on imperialism given their continued suppression of indigenous rights http://t.co/uPmLSfVH

“Kirchner” is not a very native sounding name, neither is the Spanish language or the provincial borders of New Spain…

I agree with this article James. I would certainly hope it wouldn’t come to another war though…

Very good article about the Falklands http://t.co/Wy104uQE

We should follow the UN recommendation to negotiate with Argentina and agree a fair protection for the inhabitants. We have other more important issues to care about.

dear friends read yhe history in the wikipedia “In 1770, Spain attacked Port Egmont and expelled the British presence, bringing the two countries to the brink of war. War was avoided by a peace treaty and the British return to Port Egmont.[20]

In 1774, economic pressures leading up to the American Revolutionary War forced Great Britain to withdraw from many overseas settlements.[20][21] Upon withdrawal the British left behind a plaque asserting her continued claim. Spain maintained its governor until 1806 who, on his departure, left behind a plaque asserting Spanish claims. The remaining settlers were withdrawn by the United Provinces of the River Plate in 1811.[20]

In 1820, storm damage forced the privateer Heroína to take shelter in the islands.[22] Her captain David Jewett raised the flag of the United Provinces of the River Plate and read a proclamation claiming the islands.[22] This became public knowledge in Buenos Aires nearly a year later following the publication of the proclamation in the Salem Gazette.[22] After several abortive attempts, Luis Vernet established a settlement in 1828 after seeking authorisation from both British and Argentine authorities.[23]” the first settlement is spanish/argentinian!! Ask about the autodermination a Vernet…

Well said!

RT @leftfootfwd: The Left has to raise its voice on the Falklands: http://t.co/4rx1sDG0 writes @jhallwood #falklands #NewsClub

The Falkland Islands, were discovered in 1690 by an Englishman called John Strong, it was also claimed To be discovered by the French and the Spanish in and around the 1600s, but the first documented accounts were of John Strong.

Argentina was up until 1816 a Spanish colony until it gained independence in 1818.

It would be very hard for Argentina to claim the Falkland islands as part of Argentina as Argentina did not exist when they were discovered by the English.

I can fully understand why the English will not even talk to Argentina about the Falkland islands as they have no rights to them at all.

30 years ago there were politicians in Argentina that were doing very badly in the polls so they brought up this issue over the Falklands to get the popular vote, as to try and stay in government and eventually invaded a very poorly defended Falkland islands. The British then sent a task force and kicked out Argentina. Sadly it seems the same thing is happening all over again.

Today the British hold the Falklands very close to their hearts and I believe that Argentina would be very stupid to try and illegally occupy the Falklands again. The British would defend them with everything they have.

The Left has to raise its voice on the Falklands: With the Falklanders' right to self-determination at stake, th… http://t.co/SaNvZRBK

"The Left has to raise its voice on the Falklands", @leftfootfwd – http://t.co/s1OkiHi4 >> Agreed: Argentina doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Some of the comments on this excellent piece actually frighten me.

The right to self-determination is not a luxury, and it most certainly is not a ‘bourgeois demand’ as one commentator suggested. Self determination is the very foundation stone on which democracy is built. Anyone who believes that the right to self-determination is a bargaining chip to be negotiated away, can not claim to be a true believer in democracy.

Argentina’s claims are highly tenuous, and their claims at this time are nothing short of ludicrous – President Kirchner’s poll ratings have been very low since she implemented a series of cost cutting measures. Her Falklands sabre rattling is more to do with stirring up a cause behind her to deflect attention away from her own poor performance. Our defence of the island has not changed for many years, and we only defend it because of Argentina’s illegal invasion in 1982.

Barack Obama has proven he is no friend of the British, the Falklands or indeed democracy by saying we should negotiate. I am sure that if American Samoa was being claimed by an aggressive foreign force against the will of its people, he would not negotiate sovereignty with the aggressors. That makes him a hypocrite too.

Too many on the left simply have no sense of values when it comes to national defence. They see something immoral in defending our citizens from harm, tyranny or invasion. Shame on them for being so weak.

"The Left has to raise its voice on the Falklands", @leftfootfwd – http://t.co/s1OkiHi4 >> Agreed: Argentina doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Piece I wrote on #falklands and why the left must support their right to self-determination and to remain with the UK http://t.co/EiSdZq2F

Piece I wrote on #falklands and why the left must support their right to self-determination and to remain with the UK http://t.co/EiSdZq2F

Piece I wrote on #falklands and why the left must support their right to self-determination and to remain with the UK http://t.co/EiSdZq2F

The people that lives in the Malvinas is British!!! How do you expect they want to be argentinian citizens? You are so funny, Einstein.
The kelpers want to remain british? Perfect! It´s not a problem. So many british are living in Argentine right now, what´s the problem with 3000 new british? They don´t want to live in Argentina? It´s not a problem. They can live in UK too, right? They want to remain their lifestyle? It´s not a problem neighter! Port Stanley could remain the language, lifestyle too, even rights over the fishing licenses if you want. But remember…South America never will accept Britain presence in South Atlantic, even less in South America.
In adittion, don´t be blind people. UK was never interested in the islanders. Uk want the oil, the antartic prospection and mantain a military base in South Atlantic.

Piece I wrote on #falklands and why the left must support their right to self-determination and to remain with the UK http://t.co/EiSdZq2F

Well written.

Excellent article! Thank you for your support for us Falkland Islanders. My family have just celebrated 175 years in the Falklands. We are very proud to be British and never ever wish this to change. We certainly do not want to become part of Argentina! Argentina’s claim over the Falklands is absurd and the islands should most definitely not be handed over to them just because they shout, scream and bully us (and their neighbouring South American countries).
For more information on our history please visit http://www.falklandshistory.org. The authors of the report have recently carried out further research in Argentina that will further prove how absurd Argentina’s claims are.
Again thank you for your support.

Twitter: FI_Roxy

@WelshToy interesting that jody probably also hasn't read this http://t.co/yE01Z4rf

RT @leftfootfwd: The Left has to raise its voice on the Falklands http://t.co/nGTY3rOv #Falklands #Forever #British

RT @brtnz: @WelshToy interesting that jody probably also hasn't read this http://t.co/BSdYa6Va <Hey @jodymcintyre!! Have a read. #falklands

RT @brtnz: @WelshToy interesting that jody probably also hasn't read this http://t.co/BSdYa6Va <Hey @jodymcintyre!! Have a read. #falklands

RT @leftfootfwd: The Left has to raise its voice http://t.co/rccXhi0F

I don't always read @leftfootfwd. But when I do, I prefer @jhallwood on why the left should support the #Falklands. http://t.co/mchgHS2J

Spot on in general and specifically re. Obama. A pathetic coward who prioritises support from Latino voters over the principle of self-determination. The “special relationship” is even less special than before.

Your barely comprehensible diatribe signally failed to address the idea of self-determination. Why am I not surprised?

Explain why Argentina’s imperial desires trump the wishes of the islanders. You won’t be able to, because you’re defending the indefensible/supporting the insupportable.

Good for you. Keep up the good fight and I hope we will always support you against these ghastly Argentines.

In 1982 the suspicion that there was oil of sufficient quantity or quality, under or around the Falklands Islands, that was accessible to drilling operations, was of a very low likelihood. It did NOT stop the United Kingdom from going to aid of our people living in the islands! Whatever is to be found NOW in the waters around the islands does not detract from our chosen actions in defending our fellow Britons in 1982. Consequently the warlike actions of the Argentine junta came to naught, sadly causing the loss of life of many British and Argentinian servicemen.

De Kirchner, for whatever reason, has chosen to rattle the Argentine war sabre at totally the wrong time: close to the 30 year anniversary of Argentina’s failure to re-colonise the Falklands Islands. She is known to be suffering reversals to her fortunes, and is desperate to attain the right to stand for election for a third term of office, something that is constitutionally not available to her under Argentine electoral process. “Desperation” sounds like the correct term to describe her need to further her power over the Argentine political spectrum – just as it was in 1982 when General Galtieri strove to retain power for the junta!

As for the Socialist belief quoted here that apes the words of Lenin regarding the right of small populations v the needs of large, neighbouring countries. Lenin has been dead a very long time and the world has moved on – so move on!

Did you read the article? The right to self-determination overrides that. If Russia or China were to lay claim to Britain, then the right to self-determination will mean that it is wrong.

I don’t think spending millions of pounds to enable a handful of people to live in highly-subsidised isolation in the middle of the South Atlantic is feasible or sensible. We cannot afford it. if the ‘Falklanders’ want this, then they must pay for the cost. otherwise, a resettlement is the best solution

They aren’t ‘our citizens’. If they wish to live in this situation then they should pay fior it – I resent every penny going to these freeloaders when we are cutting benefits for disabled people here

The Left has to raise its voice on the Falklands.

With the Falklanders' right to self-determination at stake,… http://t.co/ReDPGK59

@theMAOshow Something you may agree with: http://t.co/Mm3dnlfz

The Left has to raise its voice on the Falklands.

With the Falklanders' right to self-determination at stake, the… http://t.co/CUgGXc5h

I don't always read @leftfootfwd. But when I do, I prefer @jhallwood on why the left should support the #Falklands. http://t.co/mchgHS2J

They ARE our citizens, just as any of the people we “protect” around the world, who choose to be British, are British citizens. It’s this crap Coalition government (so-called) at home in the UK that is cutting the benefits of those least able to do without, NOT the Falklands Islanders. Further to that, the folk responsible for the situation that exists in the UK are the idiots who voted for Tories and LibDems in sufficient numbers to enable them to form a “government”, not anyone who did NOT qualify for a vote – and THAT includes the Falklanders as far as I am aware! Blame the “Brits” who choose to live in Spain and France and other countries; still receiving winter fuel allowance and other benefits; still allowed to vote in UK elections, many of whom want to flit off “home” to the UK because the countries that they now reside in are suffering from the effects of the financial crash! If THEY remain British, then so too under the terms of self-determination should the islanders around the world who we STILL “protect”.

RT @leftfootfwd: The Left has to raise its voice on the Falklands http://t.co/SRsv0sBp < Interesting critique

Mike, all we contribute financially is to their defence. They are a self sustaining economy, not freeloaders. All we pay is to protect them from invasion, which accounts for less than 0.5% of the UK’s military budget. In return we get to train our military in a different environment, and the naval presence in the South Atlantic helps support our efforts to prevent drugs being smuggled into the UK causing irreparable harm to those at home, costing taxpayers even more money through drug rehabilitation programmes and their healthcare through the NHS. Bargain if you ask me.

@ElizbethTowers "the Argentine claim is based almost solely on its own colonial history" http://t.co/yE01Z4rf

James, contrary to what you have written, the islands were inhabited before 1833. The first settlements were a French colony founded in 1764 and a British one founded in 1766 that coexisted with the former. Spain purchased the French colony and negotiated with the British for them to abandon theirs, which they did voluntarily in 1774. During the following 55 years there were no sovereignty claims from the UK, not even a mention (e.g., a reserve of rights) in the various agreements she signed with Spain and Argentina. The Spanish abandoned their colony in 1811, colonization was resumed in 1820 by Argentina through the ‘uti possidetis’ principle derived from its war (for independence) with Spain. Besides, the islands were unoccupied at the time and unclaimed by other nations.

This history can be read in various good studies from British, Argentine and third sources. For example, Gustafon’s “The Sovereignty dispute over the Falkland (Malvinas) Islands”, published by Oxford University Press, of which Google offers the historical chapter (one) in its entirety.

In 1833, the Argentine settlers were removed by force by the British. Argentina has been regularly claiming at international forums since. If there is support for a British claim, it doesn’t come from historical rights (e.g., Gustafson asserts that Argentina has a superior historical claim in page 37 of his book) but from the self-determination principle. Nevertheless, this principle is severely challenged by the fact that the alleged ‘self’ is a population that has been imported in the midst of claims, as you can read in Gustafson’s and other studies.

Regarding imperialism, I regret the rhetoric of the current Argentine government in that respect and sad episodes from this country’s past like those that you cite, but I believe you are misrepresenting the Argentine society when, in that context, you say that a vast majority have European ancestors. Even though you are right on that, it may be misinterpreted if you fail to mention that a majority also descends from indigenous peoples. A recent genetic study by Corach et al., from the University of Buenos Aires, concludes that around 60% of the Argentinians descends from amerindians. A glimpse at the culture and features of the Argentine population reveals that this heritage is visibly important, particularly in the provinces of the north-west. Argentina is hardly a country where the original demography was wiped out by European settlers, as it might be interpreted from your article. Yet, I agree with you on lectures on imperialism being a pointless exercise.

@bernardmccabe @allianceyouthni Supporting the Falkland Islanders isn't a right-wing idea: http://t.co/9LzKVng5

You mean like you’ll never accept French Guiana? On the mainland? Just a BIT larger? Oh wait, no issues there.

You have no interest in the people, you’re after the oil rights.

Ah yes, citizenship is then conditional. Well then…why should I consider you a citizen? What have you done to earn it?

Well no, because the Tories have ensured we’d lose it.

RT @leftfootfwd: The Left has to raise its voice on the Falklands http://t.co/nKABAMqY

@TLangworth continuous settlement only began under the British. An excellent post on this can be found here http://t.co/8TzYTxWU

Anyone who thinks the Falklands belong to Argentina should read this from @leftfootfwd http://t.co/8TzYTxWU

Anyone who thinks the Falklands belong to Argentina should read this from @leftfootfwd http://t.co/8TzYTxWU

RT @Markfergusonuk: Anyone who thinks the Falklands belong to Argentina should read this from @leftfootfwd http://t.co/LELNIMsp

Anyone who thinks the Falklands belong to Argentina should read this from @leftfootfwd http://t.co/8TzYTxWU

RT @Markfergusonuk: Anyone who thinks the Falklands belong to Argentina should read this from @leftfootfwd http://t.co/LELNIMsp

Anyone who thinks the Falklands belong to Argentina should read this from @leftfootfwd http://t.co/8TzYTxWU

http://t.co/DzAa8Ha3 #delicious Why the Falklands Should Remain British

http://t.co/DzAa8Ha3 #delicious Why the Falklands Should Remain British

my #ff vote goes to @jhallwood for the piece he wrote about the falkland islands this week. nice work http://t.co/OJ86Id11

Well said. The Falklands were empty until British settlers arrived just under 180 years ago. They wish to remain British. That’s good enough for me. A hatred for Thatcher and a powerful anti-militarism amongst many on the Left are irrational reasons to support Argentina’s less than paper thin claim to the islands. Michael Foot understood, as a man from a generation of socialists who fought fascism and saw the need to defend freedom with force if need be. I am a left-winger and regardless of the moral confusion many felt over Iraq this is surely about a clear cut as it gets. British citizens looking to London for protection from an aggressive foreign power. These are real people’s lives, not some after dinner debate on imperial legacy. My fear is suggested oil reserves in the region might encourage Argentina to try a second time and with much more force. Both left and right must be clear: the people of the Falklands decide. We must uphold that decision.

RT @leftfootfwd: The Left has to raise its voice on the Falklands http://t.co/Ohb5jCzY

& we must also remember that the only economic reason for the uk wanting to keep the Falklands / Las Malvinas is for the potential supply oil. Many young argentine soldiers & sailors also died in that war through poor military provisions & the cold.

The Left has to raise its voice on the Falklands: http://t.co/sDYMk3xf writes @jhallwood #falklands

correction

Too tired to see awful Galloway on #falklands #bbtw suffice to say, here are my views on why left needs to defend them http://t.co/EiSdZq2F

[...] The Left has to raise its voice on the Falklands – James Hallwood, February 12th [...]

There’s a difference between saying the Falkland Islanders should have self-determination and the continued use of the islands as a political football to whip up jingoism in the UK. In the 70s there were meaningful discussions about moving away from a confrontational approach on the islands. We all know that this broke-down when two right-wing regimes decided to ratchet things up in order to prop up their failing governments. The lucky Argentines got rid of their regime, we retained ours for many more years. Is there any more evidence necessary as to why the Left should be extremely wary of ramping up nationalism? The islands inhabitants are a product of imperialism, but most people accept they are there now. That doesn’t mean we have to try as hard as possible to ensure they are a thorn in the side of Argentina. It’s not helpful at all to progressive politics in either countries.